No Financial Aid Due to Non-Custodial Parent Income/Divorce - Help?

Paying for College
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<p>So basically, my parents are going through a very messy divorce. My dad is a radiologist who makes 400,000 a year, mom is stay at home, who makes zero though will end up getting a job when the divorce is over (used to be a med tech but will probably end up working at a bookstore or something unless she can get a way to go back to college again). I also have a sister who will be going to college right after I finish. I am currently going into my sophomore year at Cornell University. </p>

<p>Basically my dad is refusing to pay any money for college, as well as anything else, period - i.e., total deadbeat. He has always been extremely economically abusive in spite of the fact that he is a radiologist who can afford it. While the amount in the 529 plan was enough to pay for a year and a half, I found out that he barely put any in, and the money in there actually came from my mom's inheritance from her late parents. So yeah, it pretty much sucks, but I will still get no aid in spite of the fact that my dad will not put anything in. There has been almost zero contribution from my dad - most of the money that he makes, he hoards so that he can retire early.</p>

<p>I feel bad posting here since I'm sure that there's many in much worse positions, but at this point it honestly seems like the whole time funding for college has essentially come from a parent with zero income who filled the 529 with inheritance money.</p>

<p>I guess all I can ask is if there is any advice for people whose non-custodial parents make large income, but who are utter deadbeats? Pennsylvania does not obligate him to do anything.</p>

<p>One thing I have read is about how declaring oneself as an independent is only reserved for very severe cases. I can say that my mom, who I have no problems with whatsoever, will never be able to make much - she will be able to live off of the interest from the settlement and the job that she will have. Due to my college and sister's, she can't really afford to take much out though from where the interest will collect, I believe. However, my relationship with my dad is beyond terrible - we essentially hate each other (not my fault, i don't need to go into the details, take my word for it, i could write a book), so there's basically no financial or moral support in anyway. My only hope is that one day he will look himself in the mirror and decide to change, don't know how likely that will be. Would I be a candidate to become an independent (major disadvantages? - forgive my ignorance of this things)? I also suppose taking out Stafford Loans is a must, but what other routes should I take? I am likely going to apply to medical school so that's another thing to worry about with all of this - I know that's a fortune too. Any hope in fighting for aid at all?</p>

<p>Thank you in advance for the help!</p>

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<p>EDIT: Researched financial independence, found out it’s impossible to get pretty much, and Cornell won’t recognize it anyway. What about non-custodial parent waivers for putting their information on the financial aid application? How often are these usually given?</p>

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<p>I’m afraid in your situation the waiver has no chance of being given. Just simply refusing to pay does not equal aid. Otherwise everyone would do it. Sorry!</p>

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<p>Waffle. This is discussion you need to have with your parents. If your parents are in the process of divorcing, perhaps your mom’s lawyer can get something about college costs for you and your sister into the divorce settlement. I know that won’t help you right now, but it might for the future.</p>

<p>Because Cornell requires the Profile (I believe that is accurate), the income and assets of non-custodial parents is taken into consideration.</p>

<p>I would say there is NO chance that you can declare yourself as an independent student. But you could stop going to school and you could work until after your 24th birthday at which time you would be independent.</p>

<p>The thing that is difficult to understand or believe is that NO parent has a mandate to pay for college. Even parents who are married (with significant assets and income) can say they won’t pay the bill. That does not factor into the financial aid equation (nor should it, in my opinion).</p>

<p>Sadly, the reality in the OP’s situation is that if Dad was earning THAT much money, there would be an expectation that some of it would have been put into savings for college purposes (and truthfully, a fully funded 529 might have been possible with good financial planning since $400K is nine times the annual family income in this country). </p>

<p>The only option I can see for affordability would be to transfer to a FAFSA only school where only your mom’s income (and assets) would be considered.</p>

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quick question … does the divorce need to be finalized for this to be true? Or is it OK if the parents are in the process of a divorce? The timing of all this could really stink for the OP … even if s/he takes a gap year depending on when the divorce is finalized the dad’s income may still show on the financial aid form (although the 1 1/2 year 529 may help that situation out).</p>

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<p>My understanding is that if the parents are legally separated, that is the same as if they are divorced for FAFSA purposes. Of course, for the Profile, it doesn’t matter at all as BOTH parents must report income and assets on the Profile. I believe Cornell is a Profile school…so the divorce may have little impact on the information Cornell uses to process the finaid for the OP. In other words…the father will still have to report his income and assets.</p>

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<p>Yeah, like I said, right after posting I researched declaring independence - realize it’s impossible. They are in the process of divorcing - it will hopefully be finalized by December at the latest (filed last October). Pennsylvania doesn’t have laws requiring him to pay, though it seems like all the surrounding states do :stuck_out_tongue: but we’re hoping the judge will look at everything and make him pay some. We’re hoping that the judge looks at the situation and even decides to penalize him for things he has done, such as illegally paying bills by draining marital assets (he was caught and forced to put it back).</p>

<p>I disagree with a poster’s statement of “simply refusing to pay” - this isn’t simple, like, oh I don’t feel like paying for college for you. He won’t pay anything anymore, and we’ve had a terrible relationship as long as I can remember, and I know that there’s areas on the waiver where you write about things like personal experiences, any support given, get 3rd parties to list things, how much contact, etc. I don’t know whether I will be speaking to him again after this is all over (not trying to be emo here - but I think this relates to the waiver). I currently am not on any speaking terms with him, in spite of the fact that he is still living in our house. Pennsylvania law hasn’t been able to force him out of the house, which in his own words to me, is to “make you mother miserable” (my mom is buying him out though) but I try to avoid him. Currently there has been a motion filed for emergency support and alimony, as well as emergency motion to get him out of the house. This is someone who literally told my sister that he may not be able to afford a home because he had to spend a 100 bucks on dance leotards for the summer (keep in mind, he makes over 400,000, and like I said, I could write a book on this). So yeah, it’s not exactly simply a refusal to pay - it’s a refusal of moral and financial support in any way, shape, or form, which I think is the point of the non-custodial parent waiver, which is why it would be enormously helpful to know how much these are honored and what it will take to maximize the probability that it will be.</p>

<p>And yeah, Cornell looks at both FAFSA and Profile, so kinda screwed there. I really want to stay, I WILL stay, I’m doing really well there, worked hard to get in, and don’t want to leave.</p>

<p>Thank you though for the info given so far! More help/info/advice would be much, much appreciated!</p>

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<p>Maryland also doesn’t require college cost considerations in divorce proceedings. Just because the state doesn’t require it doesn’t mean your mother’s attorney cannot win such considerations, however.</p>

<p>Who is going to pick your dad’s nursing home, I wonder…?</p>

<p>I love Cornell – was visiting it over the weekend, in fact (H got his doctorate there) – and know it’s a fabulous school, but it is really expensive. If you don’t get financial aid to make staying there feasible, please don’t be tempted to take out loans to finance the whole cost. If you have to transfer because of college costs, mourn for a little while, but then transfer and don’t look back, especially since you want to go to med school.</p>

<p>I do not understand, at all, parents who act this way. I’m so sorry for the situation you are in.</p>

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<p>I hate to be the bearer of bad news…but I don’t believe this is correct. The non-custodial parent waiver isn’t for parents who have inadequately supported their kids, live in the same home and are married (but divorcing) their spouse. It is for kids who are completely estranged from a non-custodial parent. Things like NEVER knowing a parent, having a parent in jail for an extended period of time, parent convicted of child abuse, completely absentee parent.</p>

<p>Yes, a third party can attest to this, but in your (OPs) case, this person would have to say that you had no contact with your father, that he provided NO (read that NO) support to you, that he was abusive, that you had no contact with him (that’s not true by your own statements). </p>

<p>I have to ask…you say your mom has no income and isn’t working…but she is able to “buy out” your dad’s portion of the house. This would indicate to me (and everyone else) that she has some assets somewhere OR she has someone else giving her money to do this. And yes, I do understand that you and your family need a roof over your head, but there is a cost associated with this.</p>

<p>There are parents all the time who say “I’m not paying for college”. They can be married, divorced, and they can be very wealthy. There is no law out there that mandates that ANY parent (married or divorced) pay for college expenses for their kids. None. And a parent saying “I won’t pay any more college bills” is not the key to getting more financial aid. I know that is not what you want to hear, but it’s a fact. If it were that simple, many many parents would say “I’m not paying”. It’s not that simple…nor should it be.</p>

<p>Now…having said all that…if you want Dad’s money, perhaps it’s a time to mend some fences with him. If you really don’t want to have ANYTHING to do with him, I will venture that would include taking money for college.</p>

<p>And lastly…most people don’t just garner a $400k salary overnight. Your dad’s income probably was high for many years. Colleges have the expectation that there will be savings!</p>

<p>Another thing…you say you have enough in a 529 to pay for 1 1/2 years at Cornell. If that is the case, you have at least $25K in that account (1/2 year of tuition, room, board and expenses at Cornell) that would more than pay for an additional 1 1/2 years at most public universities. That would get you 1/2 way through your junior year in college without any additional expenses…not bad. And if you are at your instate public, it is likely a FAFSA only school and only your mom’s info would be used for the remainder of your schooling to determine financial aid.</p>

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<p>Oh, never mind; I misread the post!</p>

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<p>A friend of my son’s got his non-custodial parent’s income waived as part of his financial aid from a CSS Profile school. It wasn’t as if he had received zero support from his father, but he received very little and it was sporadic. The biggest difference is that he never lived with his father and never even met him until he was 11 or 12 years old. After that they had infrequent contact. The tricky part was that at first his father did agree to fill out the Profile information for a non-custodial parent and to contribute to the kid’s education… but then he got the bill and changed his mind. Just flat-out quit on the deal with only a cursory note to inform the kid. The mom got little sympathy from the first person she spoke to in the financial aid office, but she went up the ladder a bit, brought in the kiss-off letter the dad sent to the kid and explained the family history, and they then decided to waive it for them.</p>

<p>The OP’s situation sounds much, much more difficult to get a waiver for, but you really can’t know if you don’t try. Present as much documentation as possible for the things you father has done to the detriment of the family. Don’t expect a 'yes", but definitely ask and ask again. Also, good advice on getting something in the divorce settlement to deal with this. Also good advice to move on (transfer to a FAFSA only school) and not look back if things come to that.</p>

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<p>That is a HUGE difference. The OP has lived in a family with a very high family income all their life. That is very VERY different than having NO contact with someone until you are 11 or 12, and never having had that person as a custodial parent. </p>

<p>Good luck to the OP…anything is worth trying, but have lots of other options, just in case.</p>

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<p>In many jurisdictions, a spouse who is a homemaker for 20 years and divorcing her $400,000/yr physician husband would be far from impoverished after a divorce. I don’t know specifically about Pennsylvania.</p>

<p>But anyway…there are a LOT of college students who end up working their way through a state school because their parents (divorced and married) refuse to pay for college. Can you take one course a semester and work the rest of the time?</p>

<p>I know you think this is impossible, but maybe you and Dad should attempt to get along, or go to counseling. He might be witholding tuition because he thinks you hate him. Lots of people are like that.</p>

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<p>If Mom is buying out the house, you can bet that Cornell (or any PROFILE school) will expect that asset to be tapped to pay for college expenses. It’s not just that she has the $$ to buy it, OP, it’s that the house is an available asset, too.</p>

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<p>I don’t understand why several posters are encouraging the OP to pretend to be ok with the father’s abuse in order to get money out of him. That strikes me as rather unethical - not toward the father, who IMO doesn’t deserve any consideration whatsoever, but I don’t think anyone should be encouraged to live a lie for financial gain. </p>

<p>A college education is the only way in this country to be prepared to make a living wage, unless you happen to be one of the fortunate few who are talented with their hands and can become excellent carpenters or electricians, etc. This is why most European countries provide a huge amount of financial support to students, and that should be the case in the United States as well.</p>

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<p>I agree that a NCP should be attempted. I don’t think it will work. This happens a lot, by the way. My friend, also in PA came up empty for college money for her kids when her surgeon husband flat out refused to pay. And the OP is right PA law allows this and there is not much recourse. She can talk to an attorney, perhaps legal counsel at Cornell about suing her father, but the fact of the matter is that he doesn’t even have to fill out the PROFILE forms, much less pay for any college. The situation is the same, by the way, whether he is married to your mother or not. There are parents who refuse to pay or fill out anything who are not separated or divorced. </p>

<p>Nellie, Cornell is a private school running upwards to $60K a year. Not a necessity for ANYONE to go there. If the OP got into Cornell, s/he would have had an excellent chance of having been accepted and gotten some decent scholarship money from University of Pittsburgh which much more like European university models. Had she done this, she would have likely not been in this situation what funds she had in 5299 (College Savings), merit money, federal funds and finding part time work, not to mention the lower costs of a school in state to her. European countries do not provide any more, in fact less, support for options like the private schools here. That’s partly why the private colleges do not thrive like they do here and are not among the most elite there. Very few private schools are the best choices there. One cannot compare systems as they are so very different.</p>

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<p>This thread is from 2008.</p>

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<p>And…the student graduated from Cornell TWO YEARS ago. </p>

<p>Guess mom must have gotten mega-spousal support payments and/or dad was ordered to pay for college. </p>

<p>Why would anyone think that a stay at home mom wouldn’t get big bucks from a highly paid doctor…</p>

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<p>Folks…this thread is FIVE YEARS OLD? FIVE! </p>

<p>Why are folks opening up and responding to FIVE year old threads. Start a new thread for current info and posters. Policies change and a FIVE YEAR OLD thread is too old to rely on any info…never mind that the posters have moved on.</p>