No More FB from the Mean Mom

<p>Classof15,</p>

<p>I remember when our kids were very young. Our DD who is 2 yrs older than DS2 weighed the same at age 2, she was 4, and he was also taller.</p>

<p>We did the “WEEEE” game, you know when both of you hold hands as parents and say 1,2,3 WEE throwing them in the air as you walk.</p>

<p>One time we did that with DS 2 1st, and he went about to a 30 degree angle. DD of course was next and because it took every ounce of strength for DS when we did her WEEE she almost did a full circle.</p>

<p>The same happened when I would lift her up after putting her brother down…she was a feather, but weighed the same amount.</p>

<p>Still to this day I would love to understand how that works. How was it that our DS who weighed the same exact amount on the scale felt like he weighed a ton of bricks and his sister felt like she weighed a tiny pebble.</p>

<p>I think that is also why our DS is successful in FB…he is slow(running speed), but you know what, for an offensive LB, they aren’t looking for speed they are looking for that player who can be like a brick wall and stop the defense. His job is to create a hole for the qb by holding the defense. He is not expected to get the ball and run. </p>

<p>I can also say because our eldest has the swimmer body, he also is very strong when it comes from upper body strength. I myself tell him his arms and chest are gross. From swimming he is very muscular, but at 5’10 and 140 lbs he is thin. Thus, when he sits at the dinner table, you can see his arm muscles even in the relaxed position. He has no control over this, it is his how his body is. He is what I call an inverted triangle. DS2 is a tree trunk!</p>

<p>I love them both, and don’t believe that DS1 could ever get to the physique of DS2, and DS2 could never get the physique of DS1. It is genetics. DS1 takes after Bullet’s paternal family. DS2 takes after my paternal family. DD takes after Bullet’s maternal side…all genetics.</p>

<p>Fortunately, mine has never had any interest in football. We would have forbidden it because those early concussions can take a very heavy toll - and the general wear and tear as well.</p>

<p>

pima, it’s possible that your DS’ center of mass (an equivalent point on the body where, if all the mass were located there, would have certain physical motion properties the same as the spread out mass) was higher on his body than your DD’s would have been at that age. In general a person’s center of mass might be around groin level (as your D’s might have been at 2), but for a stockier boy with his (larger) arms raised, it might be more like chest level. </p>

<p>Since the tensile force you would have felt while swinging them would be inversely proportional to the distance from your shoulder to their center of mass (Sum F = mv^2/R), a shorter R would result in a larger force. Humans tend to be very sensitive to even small changes in these values. Hope that makes some sense without a diagram!</p>

<p>I thought this was very interesting…I hear it on NPR yesterday morning.</p>

<p>[Schools</a> Forfeit Games, Putting Safety Above Football : NPR](<a href=“http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130511940]Schools”>Schools Forfeit Games, Putting Safety Above Football : NPR)</p>

<p>I cannot help but think that the days of kids playing tackle football at earlier ages are numbered. We, as a society, go to great lengths to ensure the safety of our kids (think about how few kids are allowed to walk to the neighborhood school less than a mile away for fear of abduction - a very, very low risk) and it’s just now dawning on us that football is a sport in which head injuries can lead to life-long issues. It will be interesting to see what happens over the next decade.</p>

<p>My son played 1st string 7-12th grade. He was never interested in sports until then - he only ever played football and he was good at it. It was a life-changing experience for him. Fortunately, he played on the offensive line where head injuries are less common but I saw many of his teammates get whacked repeatedly. Several of them had concussions. In certain positions, there is a very high probability of suffering head blows. </p>

<p>At this point, I wouldn’t forbid my son from playing (if he were still in HS) but I would definitely have a once and out rule. Repeated head injuries (and they don’t even have to be concussions) can result in life-long consequences. Not worth the risk, IMHO.</p>

<p>I am surprised no one has posted on this, but it’s getting a lot of press in NJ:</p>

<p>[Politi:</a> As Eric LeGrand lies paralyzed, a football coach in Colonia wonders how to go on | NJ.com](<a href=“http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2010/10/politi_as_eric_legrand_lies_pa.html]Politi:”>Politi: As Eric LeGrand lies paralyzed, a football coach in Colonia wonders how to go on - nj.com)</p>

<p>S had a concussion due to a skiing accicent when he was 10. Since that time, I have worried about a repeat as he grew older and began considering different sports to try out. Luckily he is built slim and did not have the body type nor the inclination for football. He ended up a runner and I was thankful at every meet I attended that I was not a football-parent having to worry about a head injury. I was completely uneducated about concussions until he ended up in a hospital…you learn very quickly.</p>

<p>It sounds like you have a difficult mission ahead of you but I understand your concern. I agree with the “stick to your guns” approach. I know that’s what I’d do in your shoes and would be prepared to be very unpopular for awhile. As several posters have said much more eloquently than I, it’s a parent’s job to make the tough decisions. This, for sure, is one of those. Please keep us posted on how things go.</p>

<p>I will never forget talking to a parent of a boy in my son’s class when they were in 6th grade. Her son played football and was out with a concussion for 2 weeks. They were so upset with the doctor, because their son was “the best on the team” and this would stand in the way of his “football career”. They were going “Dr. shopping”-keep going to Dr.'s until they found one that would give the OK for him to start playing with his team again. We were on a field trip and she was unashamed as she told this to a group of parents. Another parent said they had also done something similar with their son. I remember asking if they weren’t worried about permanent damage and she said something about these doctors being overly cautious. These kids are now in their mid-20’s and my son just ran into that boy. He deals drugs and works occasionally in construction if he can find it. Obviously the football career did not work out. I remember thinking at the time that this poor kid does not have a chance at a normal life with parents like this.</p>

<h1>87. Now that is very sad.</h1>

<p>I recall joking with other parents of middle schoolers that we weren’t counting on a sports scholarship for our son (he was not an aggressive player at the time). One mom replied that her sons would have to have sports scholarships because of the family’s finances. I felt bad for those boys with that kind of pressure.</p>

<p>In church yesterday, our pastor prayed for a young man who plays football for our state flagship university. He has a spinal injury from the weekend game–two broken vertebrae. He can’t breathe on his own now, and may never walk again. So I guess that tips me over into the “no football” camp.</p>

<p>I just googled for an update. He is reported to be paralyzed from the neck down.</p>

<p>I am thankful my son is a swimmer and will never have the build, nor the personality (he’s not cut out for team sports - likes to point fingers at others) for football.</p>

<p>Speaking as a football fan (thus not speaking from a negative position) I have a lot of problems with what I see in a lot of High school Football these days. Football in the past 30 or 40 years has changed, in a sport where defensive lineman used to weight 250 pounds on average, they now are at well over 300. What makes it worse is these aren’t ‘fat buddhas’, many of these guys are fast as well…</p>

<p>And this has moved down to the high school level. When I was in high school, I would be considered a bit on the bigger side in the league our school played in, at 5’ 11" and 190 pounds, as a defensive/offensive lineman, today a lot of schools are fielding kids much bigger then that. More importantly, high school football has moved up the tempo on things like strength and weight training, and the kids playing today are from my observation tremendously faster and stronger then back then. And in many cases, there is tremendous pressure on the high school programs to win, the coaches act more like division 1 college or pro coaches then high school ones. Among other things, this has also led to steroid use moving down to the high school level…</p>

<p>What concerns me about it is that they have built these kids up, fired them up, but I seriously wonder if other things have caught up, like equipment and coaching ability to teach avoiding injuries, or coaches trained and ethical enough to nip dangerous play in the bud. The kid who was paralyzed at Rutgers was paralyzed because he put his head down when tackling, he went with his helmet, which besides causing harm to the person being tackled, also easily can lead to concussions and worse. Likewise, coaches often emphasize ‘popping’ other players, “ringing their bell”, which can lead to things like concussions, especially when the kid is hit when they are defenseless, and many consider this ‘part of the game’. Hard hitting is part of the game, this is a physical, rough sport, but there are also ways to teach it and reign it in, especially at the high school level. Even when I was in high school, these were issues, but we were fortunate to have a coach who knew the difference, and he would suspend kids from the teach if they violated rules like helmet to helmet contact, spearing and hitting defenseless players to basically hurt them, and he threw kids off the team who violated it more then once. And the rules in leagues and such are haphazard, even with issues like concussion it also depends on the conference and state they are in.</p>

<p>What worries me about high school football is also the size disparity. While there are a lot more of the bigger kids, you still see kids that are 5’ 9" 150 pounds playing, there is a wide range of size. By the time you get to big time college programs, that isn’t as true, there are smaller players but even they are pretty rugged. Most high school conferences don’t have rules on size, whereas for example in Pee Wee football most leagues either differentiate by weight class, or they have rules about what bigger kids can play or not. That weight disparity is a big issue, it can lead to the lighter kid getting really screwed up when hit by a freight train style defensive lineman. The other problem is when kids play college football, they are pretty much done growing, they are not going through the rapid changes of adolescence. </p>

<p>I am not like some, I don’t say ban high school football, but I also think that there are problems with how it is played a lot of places. The winning is everything attitude like you saw in “Friday night Lights” is great for a movie, but it also doesn’t take into consideration the cost of doing that with kids (actually the movie does in fact show that, one kid tears up his knee, comes back to play when he shouldn’t, and ends up with a knee that is shot).
In my opinion there needs to be better standards and rules that apply across the board, including rules about coaches having training in spotting problems, and rules that if kids get caught in games doing things like spearing or helmet to helmet, lead to suspensions of kids and also of coaches if it is found that his kids are doing these kinds of things routinely.</p>

<p>I also think it is disingenuous to make claims like “life has risks” or “you can get hurt playing soccer, volleyball, etc”. While true, it also is making someone who thinks football is too dangerous for their child seem like a hovering parent wanting to encase their kid in bubble wrap, and that is unfair. Yes, you can rip up your knee playing soccer, you can get a concussion playing baseball, or get hit by a line drive in the chest and go into cardiac arrest, you can get hurt skiing, but that leaves out a statistical fact, that football by the nature of the game, especially as played today, has a risk level much above those sports, based on any kind of risk assessment. It also leaves out another statistic, the odds of recurring injuries, and that is crucial. Yeah, a volleyball player can get a concussion from getting hit by a serve in the head or falling and banging their head on the floor, but statistically it is unlikely for someone to have another one during their high school career, same for other sports, in those sports those are relatively rare (pretty rare in baseball these days, though back in the days of concrete walls, guys like Pistol Pete Reiser of the Brooklyn Dodgers used to get several a season). In football, the problem is that injuries like concussions are often repetitive, you don’t just get one, and each subsequent one according to the research I have read makes it less likely to recover without injuries…</p>

<p>The only way to make decisions on matters like these is look at the risks, look what has been documented and decide what is your level of tolerance in terms of your child. Yes, most things in life have risk, you hear all the time about the guy who is the bridge painter or high iron worker who dies slipping on his front steps and so forth, but in life risks are always quantified, and one risk is not the same as the other. I think with risk it comes down to risk versus rewards; a kid who is athletic and has real ability to play football, for example, might have the hope of an athletic scholarship that would allow him to attend college without a huge debt, or maybe even play pro ball, so playing is a lot more imperative then the kid doing it simply because they love the sport but aren’t on that path, it all has to be added up and it is up to the parents involved to weight that. </p>

<p>As far as kids hating us for our decisions, well, that is what parents are for, in the end we have to do what we think is best for our kids, and to quote something from a tv show, where a doctor sent a 15 year old kid home who had been wounded in combat (kid had lied to get into the military), and the kid tells him “I hate you” and the doctor tells him “may it be a long lived hate”.</p>

<p>Hi NJ2011Mom – this was the first thing my husband said to me this morning – he’d heard it on NPR. H said it’s better to be in prison – at least you can move around. I hope and pray for Eric and his family that he’s one of the lucky ones (like Kevin Everett).</p>

<p>Thanks to all for the votes of support. Some have written “you can’t keep your kids in a bubble”, and as musicprnt points out, parents like me don’t have some unrealistic, overprotective desire to keep our kids from harm. I’m simply choosing to selectively reduce avoidable, unecessary risks to his growing brain. FB has more head and spinal chord injuries than other sports. You can’t play without risking injury. My son’s concussion happened in practice! And yes, his JV team (9th and 10th graders) plays against teams with juniors on them, where each player is 5 inches taller and 50 pounds heavier than S’s team. They don’t allow that in boxing or crew or other sports where weight makes a difference – why do they allow it in football? That’s a recipe for disaster in my book.</p>

<p>I’ve also heard of players just trying to hurt each other. Our Varsity QB had an opponent kick his knee pretty viciously after the play was over, just to “take him out”. That’s sick.</p>

<p>GFG – how horrible – my thoughts and prayers are with that family.</p>

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</p>

<p>My son’s football team, from a small private school, often played public school teams that has players who were enormous by height and weight standards (most of our guys were average size). </p>

<p>It usually wasn’t the size disparity that was a big problem, it was when the other team played dirty…delayed hits, illegal hits, overt face-mask grabbing, etc. You could really see it from the sidelines and often the refs didn’t call them on it. It took a lot of restraint on son’s team part to hold back and not get caught up in that. I admired them for that.</p>

<p>One game, just prior to playoffs, the opposing team rushed our kicker and injured his leg badly after he had kicked the ball. The kid couldn’t play in the 1st play-off round. He was a senior. Fortunately, he was okay and now is the first-string kicker at a SEC school but still. For no good reason, they could have ended his football career. That’s the kind of stuff that shouldn’t be tolerated. Do it once and you are out of the game. Do it again, you sit out the season. If we have a no tolerance rule, people wouldn’t do it.</p>

<p>Classof2015, I was the morning carpool driver for 4 teenage boys throughout my S’s HS years. We had to accommodate the crutches for one of them for months because he played football and was smashed by three opposing team players in an orchestrated hit. They’d been instructed to “take him out”. He required surgery and months of physical therapy. His doctor told him that if he received another hit like that, they probably couldn’t fix it. He’s younger than my S and his parents are letting him play football again. They’re all crazy in my book.</p>

<p>Heads are even more critical than knees. I’m with you 100%. We flat out refused to let our son play FB, which took the heat off of him. I think he wanted to play for the guts and glory, but after we showed him the medical research and stats he didn’t protest very much. We played the bad guys with relish!</p>

<p>There is some hope for Eric Lagrande,in the past 15 or 20 years they have made great strides with these kind of injuries, that if they get to them early enough steroidal and other treatments can help reverse damage. There was a player on the Jets several years ago, Dennis Bird, who basically was paralyzed, and thanks to quick surgery and drug therapy he ended up being able to walk and use his arms again, after breaking his neck in a game, so there is some hope (though obviously, it depends on the injury and where it was).</p>

<p>if you look at the film of what happened to him, it is a classic, it was on a kickoff return and he went to tackle the guy with the ball, put his head down and ended up helmet to helmet from what I could tell. I don’t know whether the kid forgot the lessons he was taught, or never was taught, but that is one of the most dangerous things you can do.</p>

<p>Momlive and class of 2015, what you are talking about is one of the dirty little secrets of high school football, there is a lot of what we used to call headhunting and the like, and the ultimate was getting an opposing teams player out of the game or even the season, and sadly between idiotic hyped up parents who believed in ‘win at any cost’ and the more then a few bad coaches. The football coach at our high school talked a lot about that, the number of coaches he saw who seemed to feel ‘it was part of the game’, and the fact that kids are going helmet to helmet and doing things like kicking out legs, spearing, you name it isn’t just kids in the heat of the moment, these kinds of things sadly are encouraged by coaches in many cases, either tacitly or with full approval. Some teams practice synchronized ‘crunch tackling’ to put ‘the hurt’ on opposing players as an example of this.The late Jack Tatum, infamous for his crippling hit on Daryl Stringley of the Patriots, wrote about this in his books, and that it started way back in high school, with coaches encouraging defensive players to ‘take the other guy out’ and the like. </p>

<p>Sadly, there are few penalties for these kinds of infractions, and even so, what is a 15 yard penalty for roughing? I was watching one of the NFL pre game programs and they were talking about the 3 or 4 players this one week alone who were severely concussed, including a completely dirty hit of Deshawn Jackson of the Eagles that could be the prototype of dirty hits. Shannon Sharpe, an ex NFL cornerback I believe, said that unless they made real penalties for this kind of stuff, it would continue to happen. If they are serious for these kinds of things, then at the high school level there should be real penalties if kids are found to be deliberately going after other players with cheap shots (and believe me, this isn’t secret stuff, every coach and player knows who the dirty teams are), up to including suspending players and coaches, and in extreme cases, teams who are found to be playing dirty. Problem is, I don’t think this is going to happen unless legislatures act and they are forced to change rules and such, I personally have little faith because frankly too many people, parents and coaches, think this is ‘part of the game’. Hard hitting is part of the game, but it can be done cleanly, it can be done in ways to minimize injury, but the problem is there is still this weird culture that injury is part of the game, is no big deal, that those who complain are wusses or “wimpy parents”. Likewise, given budgetary pressures out there, how many programs can afford top rate equipment or having top notch medical care there for when kids do get hurt</p>

<p>^I completely agree that the penalties for roughing should also be assessed against the individual, as they are in hockey. Football coaches could take a few lessons from USA Hockey in teaching their kids to always play and hit with their heads up. I’ve also noticed much more advances in helmet technology for hockey players. Hockey parents, of course, are used to high equipment and fee expenses and don’t balk at spending an extra $150/year to make sure their kid has a decent helmet on! As a hockey and football mom, I’m very surprised that many football parents spend less than $200 a year on their kid’s equipment…some even resist the expense of a collar! They’re more willing to pay for camps and combines than helmets it seems.</p>

<p>I was surprised to learn that auto racing is statistically safer than either football or soccer. My son raced for 6 years, had a few wrecks, was upside down once and never suffered anything worse than a few bruises.</p>

<p>Swdad-
I don’t know what kinds of cars your son raced, but race cars are not what most people think they are, hopped up street cars, they aren’t (there is racing that involves street cars, but it isn’t what you see on tv). Nascar cars may look like street cars, but basically they are custom fabricated cars that only are built to resemble street cars. They have integral roll cages and custom built seats and the like, that protect in a crash. Formula1 and Indy cars likewise are custom built units with all kinds of crumple zones and tubular steel chasis, as well as custom formed seats. More then a few years ago, a writer from Car and Driver drove at the Indy 500 and crashed at 200mph…and came out of it with a broken jaw. Drivers have been hurt and killed, but they do everything they can to protect those drivers, and it shows in the results.</p>

<p>With football, especially high school football, the technology hasn’t caught up with the changes in size and speed and the types of plays they run. This isn’t the same game I played or watched growing up, and sadly, too, the kind of violent hits we are talking about make for good viewing…what amazes me with pro football is considering what a player costs them in salary, and what the loss of a single key player will do to the teams chances to win, and it is astounding they have put up with this situation. On the Eagles, 6 players have had major concussions this year, and it isn’t rare.</p>

<p>I was reading comments from this guy Anderson who I believe is the head of NFL officiating, and he is saying they are going to change the rules and start actively handing out suspensions to players for dirty hits (personally, I think they also should suspend head coaches on teams where this is routine, but that is another issue). The thing that got me was the interviewer asked if he though these kinds of hits were being taught to players, and he said yes, he said that you used to see players trained in what I remember, the so called Wrap tackling, and that he said more and more players are doing the high hitting and such, and he can only conclude it is coming from college and high school coaches. </p>

<p>It is sad, because football is something I enjoy a great deal, always did, but I also think it is facing issues as serious as baseball did with doping.I am sure there are troglodytes out there that think concussions and spinal injuries are ‘the price of football’ and ‘part of the sport’ but I suspect they are in a minority, that people will get sickened by this and demand change. When doctors are seeing ex football players in their late 40’s with brains looking like an 80 year olds, something is wrong, and one thing that is telling, they aren’t seeeing this with players who played through the 60’s and 70’s and early 80’s, these are players from the past roughly 25 years that are showing these for the most part. </p>

<p>Either that, or we are going to end up like a Jack Haldeman sci fi story, where football is the domain of oxen genetically modified to have enough human characteristics to play football, and robots.</p>

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<p>[NFL</a> Should Push Important Cause, Soften Ignorance on Vicious Hits – NFL FanHouse](<a href=“http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2010/10/18/nfl-should-push-important-cause-soften-ignorance-on-vicious-hit/]NFL”>http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2010/10/18/nfl-should-push-important-cause-soften-ignorance-on-vicious-hit/)</p>