<p>A website called pureparents dot org has this take on it:</p>
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<p>Pure might have taken a closer look at the numbers, but seemingly does not know how to interpret graduation data nor understand the most basic elements to compare. Did it occur to PURE that one does not simply divide the graduating class by the entering class to compute a graduation rate. If our government were to use that simplistic approach, the national graduation rate would drop by ten to twenty percent.</p>
<p>But, while it is understandable that such a site’s “researchers” lack the basic knowledge of how education statistics are compiled, they should be expected to have the decency to compare the graduation rate of black male students to UP’s. </p>
<p>Of course, using the correct city-wide graduation rate of 40 percent would not fit the story!</p>
<p>The average ACT score of that class was 16.5. I do not think most of these kids should be going to college.</p>
<p>The reason I’m concerned about this story is that it’s presented as though these students are now launched onto a middle-class path because they were accepted into (not even enrolled at, just accepted into) schools like Chicago State. For the most part, they are not. They have massive challenges ahead of them. I don’t doubt that Urban Prep may be doing some things much better than its peers. I just take issue with the triumphant tone of the articles. These kids have made it to mile marker 1 of a hilly marathon. Excessive celebration at mile marker 1 is likely to make the spectators think the race is finished and their support is not needed later on.</p>
<p>It’s unrealistic to think that all of these kids should be reading at grade level upon graduation in just 4 years when they’ve had inadequate schooling their entire lives. Many of the grammar schools these kids are coming from are downright terrible, especially in Englewood which is easily is the worst neighborhood in Chicago. So the children come into high school already way behind and are expected to graduate at the same academic level as the kids from Winnetka or Deerfield who have had proper schooling their whole lives? Really? I know there will always be haters but I think it’s really special to see so many of these kids get to attend college, especially considering where they grew up.</p>
<p>“The students at the school are required to wear a jacket and tie every single day.”</p>
<p>I think this is one of the common thread of many successful prep schools. The Houston YES academy also requires uniform.</p>
<p>In my opinion, ‘dressing’ for school may be playing an important conditioning role. There may be a mental preparation that ‘you’ are going to school.</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s fair for that pureparents site to try to blame the school for that high dropout rate. The kids who attend that school are from very tough neighborhoods, neighborhoods crippled by drugs and gangs. These kids get tempted by so many outside factors and drop out for reasons beyond struggling academically.</p>
<p>“So, between last year and this year, this class lost 14% of its students.”</p>
<p>That web site doesn’t get it.</p>
<p>14% is relatively low number. In poor neighborhood there is the drop out rate and parents move around a lot.</p>
<p>As I read this article, I found it to be about building role models for the future.</p>
<p>Many comments focused on why this school made 100%, usually negatively. Some took issue with it being a charter school. And so on.</p>
<p>I don’t care how they did it. Success is contagious. It’s about time that we had role models in the black community other than rock stars, athletes, and other exceptional careers. Role models should include an ever-increasing number of doctors, scientists, business leaders, and the like.</p>
<p>The same logic applies to every community, every group, however defined. Every young child should be able to see “someone like me” succeeding in a way that “I can too.” Our society should make sure that the path to that success is not needlessly blocked.</p>
<p>Do you think that kids from the inner city haven’t been going to college from every high school? Because they do. The college students I work with are almost all inner city, and graduate from every kind of high school there. It’s condescending to assume that, absent a “special” experience that has been bestowed on a few students, no one in the city aspires to or attends college. Because they do.</p>
<p>NM read the whole thread :)</p>
<p>“I think it’s really special to see so many of these kids get to attend college, especially considering where they grew up.”</p>
<p>This is exactly what I’m talking about. Based on the article, how many of these kids do you know are going to get to attend college for even a single semester? None. Being admitted to college does not mean you “get to attend.” Money problems will hold most of these young men back unless they get a lot more help.</p>
<p>So I agree, it’ll be really special if we do see many – some – even a handful of these kids get to attend college. We haven’t yet. Let’s get an update in September. Or better yet, let’s take a look at last year’s class and where they are one year after they were all admitted to college.</p>
<p>I would also like to see the number of these students who stay in college and get their degree within 4-5 years. Personally, I think the skills required to graduate high school are minimal compared to the skills needed to successfully complete college.</p>
<p>Predictably, people are always anxious to hear about the Philosopher’s Stone that will turn leaden circumstances into golden achievement. Starting with the proposition that if only everyone went to school, or went to high school, or graduated from high school, or went to college, everyone would be so much better off! And then we want to hear that if only we had more dedicated teachers, or more flexible work rules, or better funding, or smaller classes, or uniforms, the barriers to social advancement would magically cease to matter.</p>
<p>None of it is true. Educational improvement is a matter of unsexy marginal gains, not alchemy. I am ambivalent about stories like this, because they DO inspire people, but they are also B.S. and overpromise to take advantage of various political agendas. I don’t understand why xiggi buys into it and shills for it, although I understand perfectly why someone like him would want to buy into SOMETHING and have SOMETHING to shill for. </p>
<p>This dovetails well, of course, with missiepie’s adjacent thread about whether schools track their graduates’ college performance. Of course they don’t! Why would they possibly want to be judged by outcomes they lack the power to affect? Their own graduation rate and college acceptance rate are at least somewhat in their control. Sure, college performance would be a great way to figure out which high schools work better than others, but (a) it’s going to be really depressing to decide that high school A is doing a great job because 25% of its graduates finish college, and the norm for its students’ social class would be 15%, and (b) even if we knew that high school A was doing a great job like that, we would have a lot or trouble figuring out what exactly it was doing that was so great (and whether that something had been changed by mistake in the decade since the students on whom its reputation now rests were being educated). Who is going to start spending money for that?</p>
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<p>Wow, JHS, from philosophical stones to … crystal balls! You really are pretty good to know “someone like me” wants to “buy into SOMETHING and have SOMETHING to shill for.”</p>
<p>Shill? Which is one is it, JHS! </p>
<p>Could be one who poses as a satisfied customer or an enthusiastic gambler to dupe bystanders into participating in a swindle.</p>
<p>Or could it be
- To act as a shill for (a deceitful enterprise).
- To lure (a person) into a swindle.</p>
<p>What is it exactly that I bought here? Would it be better if I joined clueless morons such as the authors of that PURE political site who visibly do not have the slightest idea on how numbers stack up? What my “shilling” be more suitable if I simply accepted the blatant misuse of statistical data. </p>
<p>If you really want to know what I think, why don’t you ask me. I already shared that I am no fan of charter schools! However, that does not stop me to be happy for all those kids who got to wear a striped tie. Surely beats having to wear a striped jumpsuit! I am happy for THEM, but did I say that this should be a model to be replicated everywhere else? </p>
<p>Of course, I could have looked negatively at the 15-17 ACT range, but then I should probably have to look at what happened to the rest of CPS kids with low ACT, separating asians from whites from the minoriies. Yet, I prefer to look at the positives. Not dwell on the number of students who did not complete the four years at UP, which is probably better than the rest of the district anyhow! Like others, I would like to know what happens to the first two graduating classes, and find out if they can do better than CPS does with its black male students. What is that number of students who enter high school and graduate from college? It is 3 or 6 percent? </p>
<p>And, speaking about things I do “buy” … I made that clear in my original post by mentioning the Cristo Rey group. Now, I probably should start “shilling” for them with greater regularity! </p>
<p>Lastly, I do not believe in alchemy, but I believe in “saving” one student at a time. I have seen people who do that day after day.</p>
<p>I’d like to say a bit about what happens on the other side here, meaning what is possible for these kids at a college. I teach at an urban university, and we (used to) admit a fair amount of students ‘conditionally’–that is, they had under a 2.0 GPA or under a 20 ACT. In order to enroll, they were required to take a special critical thinking class (not a remedial class; it counted towards credit towards graduation). As you can suspect, a good number of these students were also enrolled in remedial math and/or English classes (more on this later).</p>
<p>Now, as a group, I’m sure I can say that this population of students is probably not going to succeed as well as a group with say, 22-24 ACT scores. I bet as a group they would be more likely to not return after their first year, or have lower GPAs, or have trouble graduating in 4-6 years. </p>
<p>On the other hand, for each individual student, I could not say, based on their test scores, whether I thought they would be the ones to succeed. Every year I taught the class (which had between 20-25 students), there was alway at least 2-3 who just blew me away because they were really good students; it seemed strange to me that they tested so low (not that I thought they should have a 30 or above, but clearly it seemed to me that they should have scored above 20).</p>
<p>As a teacher, sure, I was frustrated many times with these students as a group. But as a parent, I was also happy that we took a chance on these students. If they were one of mine, I sure would like to know that someone would give them a chance.</p>
<p>I know that many here on CC believe that their kids are more than just their test scores, and this applies to kids in the 16-20 range as it does to the 30-36 range.</p>
<p>That said, what worries me is that many of these students have to take remedial classes that don’t count toward graduation credit. And because higher education is not free, they have to pay to take these classes-classes that they wouldn’t have to pay for if their high school did the right job. So in some ways, the students themselves take on an additional financial burden. </p>
<p>Since as a whole these students are at risk even at the college level, I worry that many will take out loans to pay for some schooling, possibly drop out and be left with students loans and no degree to show for it.</p>
<p>The question is, is this sustainable. The long school hours and tutoring seem really expensive and must ultimately come from (the ever-dwindling) public coffers. I mean, I can take even the most deprived children and if I give them the education of a crown prince, they will probably improve…</p>
<p>Another point to raise is that such students are the recipients of affirmative action-type programs. Statistically, coming from inner city Chicago and having their background boosts your “equivalent” SAT score in the eyes of admissions committees (who don’t realize the prep-school style education they get!)</p>
<p>The success of the kids at Yes Prep, DSST, Cristo Rey and the like is to be celebrated and celebrated and celebrated. These are kids who have succeeded against the odds and just by doing that they show me that they have something special that mainstream middle class kids never willa certain strength, drive, and confidence that will serve them well later in life no matter what. </p>
<p>That said, I know that this is not a cure-all for urban education woes. As someone posted earlier, there is a big difference between the number of kids entering in 9th grade and the number graduating. Charter schools dont cherry pick students on the way in because entry is by lottery. But they can, and do, counsel kids out (though I dont know if thats specifically the case at Yes). In addition, some kids will find these schools too demanding and choose to leave, some will move away, and sadly, some will succumb to the streets.</p>
<p>Yes isnt the magic bullet, for sure. Other models are badly needed for poor black city kids tooschools that address the needs of the ones who cant make it at such places as Yes. But until they come along Im willing to lift a glass to the ones here who made it through.</p>
<p>The Denver School of Science and Technology tracks its graduates and so far they are doing well in college (I believe the first graduating class is due to graduate next year.)</p>
<p>The difference may be that at DSST you CANNOT have a GPA below 2.0. Anything less than a C and you fail - and have to repeat the class. The exams are rigorous - the junior chemistry final was something like 13 pages of problems. The literature exam was also over 10 pages of questions and essay prompts. Finals last 2 hours, like in college. </p>
<p>The school offers tutoring, mandatory Saturday school and mandatory summer classes for those who are failing. And since there are no more than 100 kids per grade, they can – and do – keep each student on track. They do lose some kids along the way; it’s inevitable. But the degree to which the school meets the needs of this population is quite remarkable.</p>
<p>DSST now has middle schools, so the entering 9th graders are ready for the rigor. Curriculum is being adjusted to these already high-achieving students, and some speculate that the degree of tutoring in place may not be necessary for many students down the road, since they are already surpassing public schools benchmarks when they enter high school.</p>
<p>I agree with BidAppleDaddy that DSST is not a magic bullet. It’s not for everyone. But it’s ONE answer out of, hopefully many, offered by public schools.</p>
<p>Everyone should have the right to go to college.
Everyone should have the right not to go to college.</p>
<p>Our society does nothing but talk about the former, and needs to do more about the latter.</p>