<p>As I look over these boards, I see a divide between students & parents who want to enter the community of the elite institutions (at both the BS level and then beyond) and the students & parents who expect institutions (regardless of the tier) to nuture creativity and innovative drive in young learners. Id like to get this discussion out in the open, and hear from both the HADES-obsessed and the follow your bliss rugged individualists. In fact I think most of us operate somewhere on the spectrum, and not at one end or the other, but still the question remains, and its an important one: are these stellar institutions here to support the student in transcending their societies so s/he can create NEW cultural models and contributions, or are they self-perpetuating bastions where entrance to the club ensures a comfortable life of power and means, albeit with the attendant obligation to give back to those very same institutions so they can further their own high standards? (And believe me, they never stop asking! :) )</p>
<p>Say youre fortunate enough to win a small lottery of $100K with the stipulation that you HAVE to donate the money to your favorite educational institution. Do you give it to your HADES/HYPSM alma mater, or do you give it to a smaller (perhaps local) institution where the money is enough to run the school for a year? (Again, another polarization, but just consider it a heuristic proposition).</p>
<p>I’ll play, especially since I have donated money at the local level and been sorely disappointed with the outcomes. In fact - if I gave 100K now it would be gone in a year with little to show for it (but I’d certainly get a plaque on the wall). That applies to both public and private schools locally (we’ve had children in both). But my city is particularly vapid about education. We blew through billions of dollars only to see test scores drop.</p>
<p>On the other hand - there is one charter school in particular that would make good use of the money. It takes at-risk kids and now boasts a 100% college matriculation. Kids work one day a week to help pay for their own tuition through partnerships with local companies. So if I could invest I’d invest in the Cristo Rey network of schools.</p>
<p>Otherwise - I’d give the money to a BS. They take a lot of urban kids who are bright but drowning in mediocre settings and make progress possible for them. For example: the trend to create free tuition for parents making less than $75,000 opened up opportunities for many people who were too rich to get good scholarshiops and too poor to be full pays. That got my attention during fundraising drives.</p>
<p>I’ve seen my daughter’s own BS bet on students based on potential - and who didn’t always fit the profile - and be handsomely rewarded for taking the risk. They try hard to make broad opportunities available to students of lesser means through fundraising efforts. Taft - for instance - took 35 kids to South Africa for several weeks. When I asked the cost I was floored at how low the parent contribution was.</p>
<p>Or maybe I’d put it into facilities for a more lasting impact on student lives.</p>
<p>So - it’s a tie with the edge going to my daughter’s school - because she’s “making magic” there.</p>
<p>I appreciate oyur enthusiasm for Taft noted here and elsewhere; it’s great to hear as it is in our pool this year and while we all liked it, it seemed less easy to get a read on than some of the other places we visited and are applying.</p>
<p>I see you split the Q in terms of quality and impact, and take your own location into consideration. You do note there’s one institution that would make prudent use of the funds, and you assume Taft would as well. Where will the same money go farther? I wonder if we can know.</p>
<p>I like thinking about your daughter “making magic” at Taft. I wonder, in 15 years, will she continue to be “making magic” wherever she is, or will she defer that responsibility back to Taft? This is the Q I’m driving at; yes I think the easy answer is to come up with some kind of “both” scenario, but I think that avoids the realities of making choices, their consequences, and the fact that our choices inevitably require sacrifices. Even the most talented and brilliant kids on these boards ultimately have to pick, and can only choose, ONE school to attend. So what I’m pushing to hear from people is:</p>
<p>How will you choose?</p>
<p>(Or, in the case of alums/parents, how DID you choose? And how do you feel about that choice in retrospect? I think these answers in particular might have some real value to kids and families in the midst of this process.)</p>
<p>In retrospect, I have regrets that I did not go to the best school I could go to. My parents got taken in by the talk that most schools are equal and it all depends on what the children get out of them.</p>
<p>I think that most prestigious schools have earned their status and work hard to maintain it by providing an excellent educational environment.</p>
<p>How do you feel about endowments? Theoretically, I could give it to a school to spend this year, on current needs. There’d be a huge boost to the budget, but it’d be gone next year. Or, I could place the funds in an account, from which the school could receive $3,500 each year, to use as they see fit. MUCH smaller immediate impact, but a much larger long term impact.</p>
I have a little trouble following this thread, so I hope I am not too off topic. Back in the days when I didn’t know CC, I took a “buy in Costco” strategy in shopping for boarding schools for my kid. I drew a circle around my home with a radius I’m comfortable traveling, and started looking for all the reviews and rankings. We eventually chose 6schools about most mentioned after screening out a few that had something sticking out we really didn’t like - there we had a list of schools to apply to! Coincidentally the list was pretty close to HADES. Coming March 10, our choices as expected were greatly reduced. Even so, that’s the hardest part - choose a school from a few schools already shortlisted and all top notch. Revisits didn’t help like at all. What did we go with eventually? Guilty. Prestige, reputation, and college matriculation stats. Of course, we never tried another school - that’s life. I wouldn’t know what it would be like in another school but we made the best choice we could at that time.</p>
<p>On CC, I’ve been impressed by “sophiscated shoppers” like SevenDad, but I don’t know if I’d do things differently if I had another chance. Knowing what I know now, I think most of the schools I’d be interested in looking into operate pretty much the same way and frankly any one of them would be great enough for my kid. I am a lazy and insensitive man (unlike SevenDad :)). I’d probably still go my “Costco” way. I know there are better ways out there, but I also know many who take my way and do just fine.</p>
<p>Yeah. I wish I could still edit that post. There are a few silly mistakes and I’m worried I might’ve offended a fellow CC’er. Didn’t mean to mock anyone really - just thought I was having some unharmful fun.</p>
<p>Nice question. She’s outspoken and independent. So Taft isn’t the catalyst - just the extra fuel she’d been looking for. She was making magic in public school - but for every step forward there was always someone trying to slam her back into the “widget box.” One evening, she was so fed up, she single-handedly took on the district’s superintendent in a public forum aimed at parents and community leaders. Embarrassed the heck out of him when a full audience started cheering and news reports of her articulately dressing him down started airing on the news. Especially since he was giving interviews about attracting more students to the district and she was giving interviews to say she was fed up and leaving. (okay - so the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree - lol!) There’s also lot of “graft” and “fraud” in our district in terms of how money is spent. We’re known nationwide for spending billions of dollars (not a typo) in supplemental funding which resulted in test scores actually going down.</p>
<p>What I like about Taft (I’m sure other schools are similar) is how in tune they are with the way she thinks and works. She’s the new kid but they let her take on as much many leadership responsibilities as she can handle and they just get out of her way. Even I was telling her to “slow down” during Xmas break until I got the report from the school discussing how her ability to think on her feet and exhibit grace under fire have been a win-win for her and the school. She’s pretty fearless, but she also knows her outer limits and self-corrects. </p>
<p>But the more I think about it - the Cristo Rey dollars would do more good. Boarding schools have many donors who can “make magic” for them in terms of facilities, etc. But it’s the poor kids in the urban districts who don’t have the same access. We’ve seen charter schools crash and burn here in my city - producing results that are actually worse than the district schools. But this one takes the types of kids people write off and they are all now college bound. I ran into a young girl who took dance lessons with my daughters and she was just beaming when she talked about the school. It’s not fancy or state of the art. But it’s wildly effective. </p>
<p>So that specific charter school network would get the dollars (sigh - can’t I cheat and split the money - lol). Many charter schools on the whole don’t match the “hype” generated by the few that get media attention. Here in KC most are worse than district schools. But this one walks the talk and gets good results in exchange. $100K would go very far there.</p>
<p>As much as I tell people that schools are equal - they aren’t. The deciding factor is on which school is better for which student. Don’t have regrets. There are many statistics you won’t see advertised - like how many students crash and burn, or wash out of the programs. You can “kind of” read it by watching the numbers annually but it’s easy to mask because schools admit students at all grade levels. So don’t sweat it. School really is what you make of it.</p>
<p>Remember, altough the prestige is there for a reason - sometimes there are other immense pressures that come with maintaining it. Not everything that glitters is not worth the cost to attain it.</p>
<p>Our opinions have been shaped by our own experiences. I won’t bore you with my experiences. But I believe that not taking the opportunities in the hope that many more will come in the future is a mistake. While some worry about the students that “crash and burn” in the pressure cooker schools, I wonder about those that underachieve, never rise to their potential and “die” in mediocre schools. </p>
<p>My advice to everyone is that at every step, evaluate your opportunities carefully and take the best one for you - maybe it is exeter or Andover, maybe not - but don’t let it go just because you think you are so good that opportunities will arise again in the future. Taking every opportunity to be the best is the right step on the ladder to success.</p>
<p>I don’t believe one’s fire ever dies. Yes, it may smolder in the wrong environment, but it won’t die – not in the young – they just must find a place where the flame ignites again. It’s not really over, let’s not let them think it is.</p>
<p>I may be able to bring a slightly different perspective to this. I began college at a mid-level state university. During my freshman year I applied to Swarthmore and was accepted. My parents left the choice of whether to transfer up to me. At 18 I chose the familiar over the unknown. I have long wished that I had had more guidance from my parents. I really had no idea what I was choosing. My parents were relatively unsophisticated about such things, though. They operated on the assumption that you can get a good education anywhere.</p>
<p>I did graduate and eventually became an academic. Over the years I have taught at a variety of universities. I have to say that in my experience, it is the students far more than the professor who shape the learning experience. I was the same teacher when I taught at an ivy league as when I taught at a state school. But my classes were radically different. And they were different because of what the students at each school were able to bring to the discussion. There are really smart students everywhere. But when all of the students in a class are smart, well read, and have a strong work ethic, it takes learning to a whole new level.</p>
<p>^^I wholeheatedly agree! From students perspective, peer group is just as important, if not more so, than teachers and school facilities. Tha’s why I never like the “big fish in a smaller pond” idea. It not only shows laziness but also is missing the point of attending a top school. Learning from peers is a very important part of the whole experience. Having said that, as mentioned many times on this board, top school/college is not a “be all end all”. You went to a state university and are a college professor - a case in point.</p>
<p>“My d is now a 10th grader at a ‘HADES’ school. She recently shared that many of her peers do not have good relationships with their parents. And that several of them feel like they were sent away to school for their parents’ convenience.”</p>
<p>Even the great institutions can be problematic if the kids themselves aren’t happy about being there. Peer culture is SUCH a dominant influence on how one perceives their surroundings.</p>
<p>My own experience at a HADES 20 years ago was as described above; it was a difficult choice to seek out an unconventional college that had a very positive environment where the kids were generally very excited about being there–one that did not fit the mold for what my own parents or guidance counselors expected from a HADES high achiever–but it ended up being the best decision I ever made, with lasting impacts in terms of friendships, social development, even ongoing love of high academic achievement. :)</p>
<p>I wonder how my BS school experience might have been different in so many of my peers weren’t rebellious, high risk “orphans”. And now, as a parent, I wish I could know who my kid’s peers–and their families–were going to be as part of the decision making process.</p>
<p>I am sure there are still such kids in all schools but have no idea whether the situation is more or less extensive compared with 20 years ago. I would bet less as parents nowadays in general are more involved in their kids life and care more about how they feel. It could vary from school to school as well. I think very few such students or parents would be on CC, so it might be fruitless if you are trying to get a good sense of it on the prep school forum of CC. Our experience is that my kid has had enough peers who chose to be and/or are happy to be there to hang out with. The unhappy kids who were “forced” to be in the school have never even been mentioned, so I assume the existence of such students hasn’t been a big negative force affecting the overall experience.</p>