<p>I've been in this lab since start of sophomore year (i just got done with my junior year). I worked as a lab tech my sophomore year but then did research starting summer after sophomore year. I had a really bad semester this semester and basically because of some major miscommunication my PI is really angry with me and I don't feel comfortable asking him for a rec.</p>
<p>I did ask the grad student if there was any hope of me getting a rec from my PI and the grad student said there was but that my PI is still really angry and its very likely that anger could be reflected in the rec.</p>
<p>I don't know what to do because I devoted so much time to this lab these past two years and it was my biggest EC. On the other hand I don't want to risk a bad rec. What would med schools think if I did not include a rec from my PI if they can see that I have been involved in the lab?</p>
<p>Outside of Harvard Medical School, there’s no med school that requires a PI rec. Most med schools won’t bat an eye since they prefer instructor recs anyway.</p>
<p>The premed committee at DS’s school once commented he prefers a LOR from an instructor instead of the PI.</p>
<p>Some CCer, who is a physician now, once posted that, in his opinion, some research lab could be a “blackhole” which can suck up almost all of your time. DS knew a person who got too involved with a lab, and the return is not proportional to the efforts he put in (no publication in the end.) The demand for some lab is just not very compatible with the busy life of an undergrad student in general, unless the PI himself set a reasonable expectation. (BTW, DS himself was mad at one undergrad student as she really devoted too little time into the assignment and then “borrowed” the needed data through the PI. But she is lucky as the PI himself did not mind. But somehow DS thinks this is not appropriate – promised to work N hours in the lab but actually committed only 20 percents of N hours for several months.)</p>
<p>Thanks for the replies guys. Keep them coming, I want to consider all sides of this before begging my PI for a possible hurtful recommendation. </p>
<p>One of my friends suggested that I don’t waive my right to see the rec so that I can see if its hurtful or not. Is this a good idea?</p>
<p>Don’t ask for a recommendation. Even if he stops being angry, he won’t write about the superstar that he thinks you are. And most recommendations will read like this, so you don’t want yours to stand out in a bad way. A single negative comment stands out in a recommendation and will make the adcom wonder, even if the rest is great. </p>
<p>Not sure if you should include this in your EC list, if you don’t have a rec.</p>
<p>My gut feeling tells me that you probably should not ask this particular PI for a LOR. It is unfortunate as you have put in much time on this. Not all medical schools insist on getting a LOR from a PI, I would think.</p>
<p>BTW, the person who I referred to as “getting too involved with the research” likely put in like 50-60 hours a week consistently in a year (almost the same number of hours as a PhD candidate whose job is mainly the research only, even more hours than those lowly career researchers – postdocs.) His research job is fully qualified as a full-time job. He actually enjoyed doing this by his own choice; nobody forced him to put in so many hours. It definitely seriously interfered with his academic work. For this kind of person, most PIs of course will “love him”, but his PI still could not help him secure a publication by the time he applied to the medical school because this particular research (being clinical related – btw, this kind of research is what many science professors would likely not approve of as the student’s focus is too narrow) likely spans over many many years. He did get in some medical school in the end, albeit not a very top one with a heavy emphasis on research.</p>
<p>I did so much in this guy’s lab. While I never pulled 50 hours a week, I was hitting a good 20-30hrs a week during the semester and full time over the summer. This was my biggest EC and I also have that I did research on my transcript since I took it for credit.</p>
<p>If I were in your shoes, I’d keep it to the 3 profs you already have and supplement it with the great one from another EC. You can always talk about your research in your personal statement or secondaries (perhaps why you’re attracted to the academic side of medicine?), and I’m sure you know plenty about your work that you could talk about it during interviews (“How would you explain your project to someone not in the medical field?” got that question 3 out of 4 times).</p>
<p>I think there are other ways to include your research in your application without using your PI as a recommender. I mean, think about it–you probably have other significant ECs that you’ll include, but you won’t have LORs from those people.</p>
<p>Will it raise red flags not to have your PI? Maybe. Will it raise red flags if you have a negative recommendation letter? Definitely. Can you afford red flags? Absolutely not. I’d do anything possible to minimize them, and in this instance, it seems like not having an LOR from this jerk is what it will take.</p>
<p>Happy to help ChemFreak. You’re right that it’s a bummer you won’t get a rec from him, but it’s not like all was lost since you’re not getting that rec letter. I bet you did research so you could learn about science (and about medicine, depending on your topic) from a new perspective and for a whole slew of reasons other than a LOR. Focus on those reasons, figure out how to include your research in other ways, and I bet you’ll be just fine!</p>