@CMA22 exactly what has happened to my D!
She has committed to her “backup” school without waiting for the april 1 schools and two deferrals (one was her DREAM school since she was 8).
So much changes from October to March in their maturity and it really becomes more a question of where they feel comfortable and valued. At least this has been 100% true in my D’a case.
@Techno13 Best of luck to your two kids!
I disagree - a 35 could make a difference at some schools - like Vandy - which is on their list.
It may…or may not - but there are some schools that like high scores.
For 99% I agree - but there may be some exceptions and one is on their list…well the son’s list.
The pre-test-optional rule of thumb that a 34/1500 was not viewed all that differently from a 36/1600 for unhooked applicants doesn’t apply anymore, at least not judging by the published score ranges.
That doesn’t mean that the OP should not carefully weigh the opportunity cost of additional prep time or added anxiety, and higher scores are of course no guarantee of anything, but at tippy-top schools that value testing those aren’t going to help.
I completely agree that you shouldn’t discount the safeties. We ended up mainly touring safeties this summer as they were offering tours and the the reaches were not. My D22 ended up really excited about Saint Louis University and Marquette. She’s in to 2 reaches so far (including a T25) but she very well could end up picking one of her safeties because of the opportunities they offer and the overall fit.
That was a really good thread you shared, even if it is very old. I wonder where her son is today, and what advice he would give. Anyway, thanks for sharing.
Agree. We are in state in Wisconsin and have many OOS friends with high stats kids who were not admitted to Madison. They were shocked.
UGA is worth checking out in general, but it absolutely, positively is not a safety for any OOS, and should probably even be viewed as a reach for applicants from high-export states like CA, NJ, and NY.
if it was 34 across the board they might not retest but D got a 30 in math and S got a 31 in Science so if they can bring those up they will have 35 SS.
34==>35 can make a huge difference, especially for merit and for EA admissions. Besides they have very high scores on 3 sections and 1 low one. Just need to improve the low one to have a 35-36 superscore.
You are making a good decision. A 34 used to be enough to stay in any admissions conversation a couple of years ago, but with test optional I think trying for a 35 makes sense.
This is a great post, thank you. Too many parents latch onto GPA and ACT/SAT and just stop there without doing additional digging. A 34 is an awesome ACT score. Unfortunately, roughly 100,000 students score a 1500+/34+ in a given year. Guess what? Almost all of those 1500+ students also earned a 4.0 and took too many APs. That’s why so many of the schools on these two lists now have single digit acceptance rates: because so many people look at the “stats” and say I’m in the ballpark. But so is everyone else.
There are only about 50,000 spots at the T25s. Take out legacies, URMs, and recruited athletes and there just aren’t enough spots to rely on “stats” for admission at any of them. That used to be a T10 problem and it’s quickly developing into a T50 problem. Test optional and the elimination of class ranking at most high schools has further exacerbated the issue. It’s just a numbers game and parents need to help their kids widen the range of schools to which they apply.
Definitely suggest a safety that is truly safety for each and use EA or rolling admission to be sure covered early in the process. My child was denied on one college that should have been an exact match not a reach at all and then admitted to a reach school. Deferred and waitlisted on one each as well that expected to be matches. The benefit of covering all the bases far outweighs the negative possibility of disappointment later. Too many applications last couple years leads to some unpredictable results that are ok if you cover the bases
Your lists are probably very likely fine. But there’s a gap between probably very likely and almost certain. It really depends on how much risk you want to take and how much you like your backup plans.
I’d probably add the safety, if only to ensure that there is probably very likely choice rather than a single option at the end. Nothing makes something less attractive than being forced into it. I’d also consider the dynamics between the kids and how one will feel if they don’t have a choice or no acceptances.
Here is a link to a list of some of the top colleges that offer Rolling Admissions; call it a “Bird in the Hand” approach. Most of these schools start accepting applications as early as 9/1, and you can hear back from a school as early as Mid-October. With both your kids’ stats high probability they get into Honors and get merit. We all breathed a little easier when our S got into Pitt about a month before the first round of decisions.
On the touring plan: another vote for changing the focus to the safeties. As you are finding, it’s much more difficult to identify them. Plus, they may track demonstrated interest, and emphasize yield protection. Reach schools are easy to identify!
Vanderbilt University will not require scores from the ACT or SAT exams for students applying to enter the university for fall 2022, fall 2023, or fall 2024. If the OP is very worried, her son can apply test optional.
I am a professional test prep tutor. My view is from that of an adult who sees students repeatedly over the course of several months. Test prep is stressful and very time consuming. I agree that the student in question might be able to get back a couple of points on the subsections that were problematic. But at that level, this student is literally trying to claw back a couple of points. That’s really hard to do once a kid already has a high score. And again, I don’t think the time and stress is worth it, certainly not twice more.
If it was 2019, maybe another try could be worth it (two more attempts—no.) But it’s 2022. Even Vandy knows that no one is submitting any thing less than high scores.
Based on the above, I doubt this kid is going to be denied due to his ACT score when he’s taken 12 APs and appears to be getting A’s in them.
We toured a LOT of schools (25!) with D20. They were a true mix of reach, likely and safety. Believe me when I tell you, with the exception of our in state publics, she found something to be excited about at almost all of them. She would have been truly happy to attend each of the 10 she ended up applying to, and probably at 10 of the ones she didn’t. If you put effort into looking for what lights them up, there are little gems all over the map.
You are giving the correct advice. I’m not an AO and don’t pretend to be one but I’ve conducted alumni interviews for a T10 for 21 years (not one on these two lists) and can suggest to the OP with confidence that the marginal benefit of increasing standardized test scores in this range for most TOP SCHOOLS is small. If they can easily bump to a 35, sure, it doesn’t hurt, and could make a difference for OOS honors colleges and merit at “lower” tier schools. But no one on Brown’s committee is declining because of a 34… or falling out of her chair over a 35.
Rank (explicit or implied), ECs, and essays are what differentiate applicants at schools such as Vanderbilt, not UW GPA and test scores, and I’d rather see these two spend their limited time over the next 10 months: 1) getting leadership positions in their ECs, doing something this summer to make their apps pop, and polishing essays; 2) researching a full range of schools (including safeties & matches) to find potential great fits for the next 4 years of their lives; and 3) trying to enjoy a bit of what has otherwise been a challenging high school experience.
tl;dr Opportunity cost is a real thing for test prep. Parents gravitate to ACT/SAT (and GPA) because they are understandable, visible, and quantifiable metrics… but they really just provide a foot in the door at many of the colleges on these two lists.
Yes, and these students already have legs in the door.
Again, I said I agree with you - but there are a few schools where this may be different.
Test optional does not mean your odds are better with no test. Truth is, we don’t know - few schools publish results with or without but those that do show a bias toward taking.
Vandy is turning down 36s. I agree - a 34 to a 35 means little. However, as OP pointed out, they are low in two sections (think they said a 30/31) - so a 34so it’s more likely a 33.5 so they have an opportunity to raise. That’s another thing that’s school by school - do they look at the total or subscores or both? btw - on the Vandy website, they show a 34 / 35 for 25th - 75th percentile. And I continue to read from others on the CC how much Vandy values the test. With two low subscores, they might have to consider going TO there. Not saying they should - I’m saying as is they would have to consider it.
Anyway, they decided they are taking it so it’s really moot.
But I mentioned in the initial note, I don’t disagree with you - in fact, with everything you write on every board, you’re very rational, well thought out, and a great poster.
Like most student, one just doesn’t know - these kids can potentially get in at any college in the country. Or not - but I like their odds with at least one school on the current list but hope the daughter (film major) expands to a school or two below and the son maybe adds one below as well - to be safe.
I can’t believe how many messages the topic got - but it’s a fun topic.
Thanks for the note.