Hello. Okay, this is going to be a long one, so bear with me. I like to provide details up front for consideration by all of you distinguished, experienced forum members. I have received a lot of help in the past. My D is applying to Williams College Early Decision.
Qu: Is outstanding musical talent ever considered a “hook”? From my research on the internet, it seems an athlete who is a mediocre or low-performing student has a better shot of getting into Williams and other colleges with sports programs than a well-rounded, talented musician with academic merit. And I assume most of the athletic recruits are admitted through ED because the coaches have influence over the process. (We won’t get into my feelings about this aspect of American culture. It has been debated ad nauseum.)
You should know more about the applicant before answering this question.
Why Williams?
With her sister attending another, highly respected liberal arts college, my D is sold on LAC’s and will not apply to any large, research university;
A good balance between excellence in academics and instrumental music for non-music majors (Berkshire Symphony and a variety of other ensembles) - different from Oberlin, where the Conservatory students get the best opportunities for private lessons with top teachers and the most advanced ensembles;
Well-rounded student body with eclectic interests;
Well-rounded academic program, for students who are exploring humanities, social sciences, mathematics and natural sciences;
Balance between placement into top graduate programs, such as law schools and Ph.D. programs, and job placement across various industries and geographic regions, for students who are not sure what they want to do yet;
Strong alumni network throughout the US;
Tutorial program, which is oversold since not everyone takes them, but is a great feature of a Williams education nonetheless - something she intends to take advantage of;
Winter term and Freshman Entry are nice-to-have features, but do not make or break the decision;
The enthusiasm with which alumni we know here, at home, speak of their Williams experience and what it gave them for life;
Last, but not least, the location. She LOVES the beauty of the Berkshires area and the campus, and doesn’t mind the remoteness one bit. She’ll be too busy with her studies and on- and off-campus activities to care about going to “the city” anyway.
Our concerns and questions:
She is not a legacy. (She is telling my alma mater, a “liberal arts college in Cambridge, MA”, to stick it up their ___. Probably for the best.)
She is South Asian American, albeit one who does not want to major in anything related to STEM, unlike her sister. I have no idea if this will help her or hurt her, given the push to recruit URMs (which we support, but it comes at our expense). Out of principle, she is not marking anything in the ethnicity/race self-identification section of Common App. She doesn’t want it to influence the decision. However, I want her to have every advantage. Is this a mistake? Our name is a giveaway that we are something “ethnic”. But to the unfamiliar admissions officer, what we are is unclear. As a Harvard interviewer who has watched patterns at that school over the years and swapped notes with classmates, I am deeply concerned about this issue.
She is definitely not an athlete, although she likes the outdoors. One of her extracurriculars involves 8 hours of backpacking up and down steep trails in a day.
Nor is she a WoW student. Not a “tip” recruit, so to speak.
The question is, will the following be enough? Obviously, no one can predict, but would like to hear different perspectives, based on your experience:
She has a decent GPA. 4.00 unweighted/ 4.34 weighted (only because 11th and 12th grade classes are all at the local community college in a “Middle College” program; she can’t pile up on AP classes like in her home high school).
Her mid-year and final transcripts will show an even higher GPA, if she continues to maintain straight A’s in her college courses, but that won’t help her now. She won’t take AP tests because her classes are not aligned with the curriculum. Some colleges view community college classes positively while others give preference to AP classes in competitive high schools like hers.
Her diploma and transcript will come from her home high school, which is one of the top-ranked schools in the nation. It’s pretty competitive.
On her first ACT, she got a 33 without any preparation. This is a weakness, but she’s taking it again this month (last chance for ED) with extensive preparation, so I hope she can increase that to at least a 34, if not 35, like her sister.
She’s taking the SAT subject tests in Math II and Spanish w/o Listening this weekend, but we’re debating whether to send them, depending on how she performs. Don’t want to pressure her, with everything else she needs to focus on. We’ll see.
She has solid extracurriculars. Short list, but shows consistent dedication and passion. You can identify three themes in her interests across all the activities: wildlife conservation and rehabilitation; service to elders and low-income children here (including English language learners, given her Spanish speaking skills) and abroad, in a developing country; and music. She is/was the youngest volunteer in one of the wildlife activities, which involves the recovery of a critically endangered species. It is serious business.
Speaking of music: she has won numerous international, national, and regional solo instrumental competitions, and as a result of taking first place in one of the international competitions, performed solo at Carnegie Hall. I did not “buy” that opportunity. She has a live video recording of the dress rehearsal for her arts portfolio.
She performed a concerto with her youth symphony orchestra in front of a large audience, in a huge performing arts venue. She has a live video recording for her arts portfolio. She has also been principal in every orchestra and band she’s been in, and has won a chamber music award at the state level with her partner in a duo team.
Let’s assume my D writes a solid essay that demonstrates a “spark”. And let’s assume she gets good recommendation letters (combination of college professors who know her well and love her, and high school teachers). Does she have any chance at all? Does she lack the hooks/ unique qualities needed to overcome her disadvantages in the typical pool of candidates for Williams ED? (If there is a typical pool.)
Thanks in advance.
A father who is not looking forward to going through this all over again so soon
“Is outstanding musical talent ever considered a “hook”?”
As a violinist son who was accepted to Williams among others with, I believe, strong arts supplement, I can tell you that Williams highly covets applicants with outstanding musical talent. Although a musical talent is never spoken as an official “hook,” in my personal experience and opinion arising from it, I’d say an outstanding musical talent is indeed a “hook” albeit an unspoken kind. Especially at a remote and isolated location where Williams is situated in, two extracurricular activities are very important to its community: music and sports. If you’re talented in either, that’s a hook more so at Williams.
I also believe that your daughter being a Southeast Asian will help rather than hinder her chances since even East Asians aren’t considered ORM at a place like Williams and other similar LAC’s.
But alas, no one here has a crystal ball to tell how admissions officers will react to her full application compared to those of other candidates in the pool. With holistic admissions, there is no guarantee.
But she does not need a guarantee. If she loves Williams— and it sounds like you and she have researched it and are aware of how it could be a good fit for her— she should apply ED and give it her best attempt!
I strongly recommend simultaneously applying to a safety school early action or rolling admissions. Then, if she is deferred or rejected ED from Williams, she still will feel good about having gotten into another college, and the wait from December until February (if ED2 somewhere) or March (if RD) will not feel as long and scary.
@TheGreyKing - Thanks for the positive comments and advice. Yes, she will definitely apply regular decision to other schools (and there are so many good LAC’s to choose from, including the one her sister attends). It won’t be the end of the world. But you bring up a good point. Why not apply to programs that are non-restrictive EA and rolling admissions too? Will look into that. She’s also applying to the UC’s (a single application), as usual. That’s mainly a numbers game, so she’ll have plenty of choices. Nothing to worry about!
Another data point of one… my D was accepted ED a couple of years ago with no hooks. She was, however, an accomplished dancer and submitted an arts supplement with her dance portfolio. Because she wanted to be very sure before applying ED, she visited the campus a second time and attended a dance class and sat in on an academic class. Whether that helped her admission or not, we’ll never know.
The notion that only legacies and athletic recruits are admitted ED is simply false. It sounds like your D would be a competitive candidate, and if Williams truly is her first choice, applying ED will only help her admission chances. Good luck!
Agreed on all comments, music is highly valued at Williams. The school really promotes the music department and makes an extra effort to feature musicians at school events. The musicians on campus tend to have a high profile and are well represented in the JA class and campus leadership positions. Also great access to numerous performance spaces and practice rooms/instruments. Opportunities to compose with gifted and well rounded faculty and also to work with dance and other performing groups.
@BobShaw,I’ve been following Williams’ admissions patterns over the past 15 years (my son is class of 2007) and my highly unscientific observation is that the “ideal” Williams acceptee brings to the campus community the trifecta of academics, arts and something active – either sports or an outdoorsy nature oriented pursuit. My son applied ED and had a wonderful four years. He experienced everything you’ve listed about Williams and then some. Ten years on, he and all of his friends have completed graduate degrees at top institutions and are well on their way to fulfilling careers in their fields of interest.
My son was in visual arts, but several of his close friends were serious musicians. They majored in something else and ultimately chose non-music careers, but music is still very much a part of who they are. Your daughter’s interest in continuing music performance is a strong positive. Just look at the number of ensembles that Williams needs to populate!
My other observation is that the kids who are the happiest at Williams are those who really want to be there and who chose it for its mountain village environment, not in spite of it. I think it’s important to get this point across in the application, most likely in one of the essays. Williams knows that students who have demonstrated an interest in the out of doors, backpacking, snow sports etc. will fit in, and fit is critically important in ED admissions. Wildlife conservation and anything involving sustainability and environmental protection is huge at Williams. Did you know that the CEO of the Nature Conservancy is a Williams’ alum? (By way of Harvard and Goldman Sachs.)
I would think that your daughter’s South Asian heritage would be an advantage in admissions and that it would be a mistake not to include it in her application. I don’t have statistical proof of this but I believe that Asians are still URMs at Williams, as the rural location and low global name recognition are often perceived as negatives. Again, how she communicates this in her application can be challenging because it needs to be subtlely suggested and focused on what her background can bring to community, both in and out of the classroom. My son grew up in Asia (though we are American expats) and I think his multi-cultural life experience was an important part of Williams’ interest in him.
@momrath - Thank you for the detailed information about your experience. It’s great to hear about your son’s experience (and that of others on this thread). My daughter’s essay (in its current iteration) is indeed focused around her wildlife conservation activities and related backpacking adventures (and how they tie into her character etc.). Reading your post could not make me more excited. I did not know that the CEO of Nature Conservancy is a Williams alum! We’re heading out there for another, more thorough visit later this month. Assuming the experience seals the deal, even though this may seem like a lottery, I think we found the right school for ED for my daughter, in every respect.
Your daughter is definitely a very competitive applicant, especially if that ACT goes up to 34 or 35 (or if she gets an equivalent SAT score). Best of luck to her!
@momrath What you say absolutely rings true for my daughter. She is very outdoorsy and wrote her essay about her love of the outdoors and environmental sustainability. It has turned out to be a great fit for her. The Williams campus environment is either a blessing or a curse, depending on your perspective and you can bet ED admissions is aware of that.
@BobShaw it sounds like your daughter has a good chance. When you go for your second visit, I’d recommend that she sit in on a class if possible. There is a list of classes available for visiting students on the website under Admissions/Visit/Courses Available for Visiting Students. Also, be sure she connects with the music department. While Williams doesn’t take “demonstrated interest” into account, it certainly won’t hurt.
Speaking of the outdoors, today is Mountain Day! I’m jealous…
Well, Williams would not be a good place for someone who wants an urban environment…
But you do not have to love participating in outdoor activities to be happy at Williams. Some students there never hike or ski or sled or anything of the sort, and they still have a great experience. There is a lot to enjoy at Williams, and a lot of different factors may attract different applicants.
I see the OP’s child likes backpacking, so this post is irrelevant to her, but I would not want someone who loves small classes or the entry system or the music program or art history or economics or whatever to be scared away if they do not like outdoor sporty activities.
My daughter (Class of 2016) got in ED with music as a hook. She requested a trial lesson with a member of the music faculty. The teacher loved her and wrote a note to admissions, in the same way a coach would do for a recruit. Your daughter should definitely get in touch with the music department, and request a trial lesson with a faculty member who teaches your daughter’s instrument.
Oh, and by the way, my daughter’s essay discussed her work as a counselor at a nature camp for kids. She ultimately ended working as a counselor at the nature center in Williamstown as well.
Thanks for all the tips. Looks like my D was already on top of the right things at the time she scheduled our visit: selecting the classes she wanted to sit in on, appointment to meet privately with the flute instructor, scheduling an overnight with a host student, and so on. I’m glad she’s laser-focused in her due diligence. I just had to book the travel arrangements. Otherwise, I would be nervous about ED. By the way, to others considering this option, here’s an important note: do NOT send your financial aid application to Williams until AFTER you submit the admissions application. It’s in red on their website.
First, I agree with all the sage commenters on this topic.
Our daughters sound SO much alike, @BobShaw, except our DD is a vocal/choral performer/composer. She applied ED and was accepted. Another suggestion that we did: meet the music dept. chair, ask questions, get a feel beyond just a lesson in case she does want to explore the department beyond the orchestra. That’s the glory of Williams: it’s an open music department with a conservatory-level curriculum. She can take any class (with the necessary prerequisites) except the senior seminar/thesis for majors, and lessons are by audition, but free. If possible, it helps to get on the academic department’s radar. That way, when her portfolio arrives, more than just the performance teacher knows to support the application.
We discovered this by accident. She was looking for the choral director, who was out of the office. A prof nearby heard her and said, “Come into my office.” Turns out he was the Chair and it went from her asking questions and showing him her musical CV, to him telling her there was no place as perfect for her as Williams, how she would thrive there, and breaking down/comparing every other LAC’s vocal/choral music performance and comp program on her list as lessor than Williams. It was quite amusing and illuminating. I don’t know who the present chair is, since it rotates every two years, but it’s worth a conversation. ALL the music profs are remarkable people. Our daughter loves them and they are true mentors to her and so many others. And the opportunities they have afforded her are special, indeed.
I wish you the best of luck and let us know how it turns out. Take care!
Generally, we leave “hook” to te classic definitions. I’d call her music a “hot tip.”
Just to point something out here, going back to your first post. The ECs you describe are only the conservation (volunteer, I assume. We don’t know how much, but presumably outside her school and peers context.) The comm service. Again, no idea if thsi is a peer activity or she takes on any leadership resps, etc. And music. Again, focused on her top level and wins. Even the backpacking doesn’t make note of others.
Can you see how they may wonder how she interacts with fellow students? Just a thought. I’d bet there’s more she does that you can be sure to include, that shows this. Just think about it.
Good luck! Your daughter sounds amazing. My daughter was admitted last year ED. She submitted an arts supplement for a standard classical instrument and for an unusual musical skill (not a classical instrument) as a hook. She had strong academic credentials, but no regional, national, or international-level awards (except those tied to test scores). She has friends who chose Williams over a conservatory for their classical instruments and are playing at a very high level in small ensembles and in the orchestra. I think Williams can be a great fit for kids like that (especially if they are outdoorsy as well). As a “safety” school, you might look at University of Puget Sound. They have a strong music program and interesting academics (including a focus on Asia/Pan-Pacific). They have non-restrictive early action, so you can apply there and Williams simultaneously. Getting in ED made the rest of senior year very low-stress! Best of luck to your daughter.