I am fine with it, although I have a hard time always remembering the correct pronoun. I try, but slip at times and use the gendered pronoun, especially for those I have known for a long time. I still recall when one of my kids was talking about a friend who, although straight, had decided he was gender non-binary and uses the pronoun they. My kid said the friend was coming to visit and they would be there around 5. I asked who he was coming with and the answer was that they were coming alone. I agree it can be confusing, but we can certainly try to respect people’s identity.
I did not change my last name when I married. I don’t mind being called Mrs. DH’s last name, as that is the same as my kid’s last name. I don’t like being called Mrs. My Last Name, as I am not married to Mr. my last name (and we always know it is a phone solicitor if they ask for Mr. My last name). And yes Ms. was supposed to be a fad and it has certainly lasted.
This is such an interesting conversation for parents who I am guessing who are on the youngish side. To the people who say they can’t be bothered or it is too hard, just imagine spending your life feeling wrong about yourself, asking people to make a small concession to make you feel better about your place in the world and them saying, eh not worth my time because the grammer is wrong. It is such a small thing to call people what they prefer, try it!
I am a strong believer in a person being called by the name/pronoun/title of their preference. It is basic respect and good manners. I also believe that learning other people’s names and correct pronunciation is important as is learning preferred titles and pronouns.
For example: I really dislike being referred to as Mrs. Husband’s name. I prefer Mrs. or Ms. own first name. I don’t correct people who refer to me in the non preferred way but I don’t care for it.
Ms. was so useful that it became a real word. I think it likely that people will get used to the singular they as well. As pointed out, we already use it where we don’t know the gender of the person we are referring to. It grates on my ears, a bit, but I remember when tattoos were supposed to be a fad and they grated on my eyes. (The big ones, not the tiny little butterflies on your back.) I’m totally used to them now.
I’m fine with using any pronoun, but I do stumble a bit/make mistakes when my daughter and I (infrequently) discuss her former college roommate, who after college announced that they are binary and changed their classically feminine first name to an androgynous one, as well as their pronouns. For that matter my daughter also trips up sometimes, just out of habit.
A new friend’s child transitioned last year and even the most respectful and supportive people sometimes slip up and call them by their childhood name. Even the mom. It’s easier for me because I was introduced to them with their preferred name but I get where if you had two dozen years of one name, that switching can be a challenge just out of habit. I think the important thing is that there is a concerted effort to use the preferred name and pronoun.
I will try my best to call people what they want to be called. It is really hard to suddenly start calling a person “them” instead of him or her. Being 100% honest, I am not sure when to use them or they. How do I know someone calls themself by them? Do they tell me, or if I accidentally call a “them” him or her, am I wrong to do that? Does that make sense?
I’m still at a stage where it feels really awkward to use the pronouns in the right situation and I feel weird saying it. I think potential problems will arise when others assume that if someone forgets or says it wrong, then they are “against” people using whatever pronoun they want.
This is a big societal change and it takes time to become familiar with it. Younger people who have been the primary movers of these pronoun changes are already pretty used to it, but there are generations of people older than 30 for whom this is new.
Interestingly, in my work as a test tutor, I’ve had this conversation with a number of students. Pronoun questions are common on the SAT and ACT. I emphasize to students that the pronoun usage we discuss applies just to the tests and not to our regular everyday reading and conversations. It’s good to know kids are taking this all on board.
If someone uses they/them, that person will typically tell you. Accidentally using him or her happens, just correct yourself or thank the person correcting you and keep trying, IMO.
If you want to hear a good example of they/them being used regularly, watch HBO’s “Billions.” There is a non-binary character and the dialogue is written so that using they/them is no big deal, with a few natural slip-ups. That’s close to my real-world situation working with a non-binary person…ummm, except for the billions.
Pronouns refer to persons already mentioned. The problem is that, in English, you don’t necessarily assign gender or know what a person is.
English has a lot of non-gendered nouns and very few gendered nouns: most nouns are either neutral (a book, a table) or clear (my brother Aidan=he, my mom=she).
In Spanish, French, Italian, the book would be male and the table female, with respectively masculine and feminine pronouns, the book=he, the table=she where English would use “it”.
However, in English some titles don’t have a gender and aren’t objects, so you cannot automatically associate the title with a pronoun and using “it” would be insulting. Therefore, English uses “they”.
“they” used to refer to a singular person whose gender is unknown (ie., a manager, an assistant, a farmer, an engineer, a patient, a doctor, a nurse, a student, a teacher…) has been the norm for about 30 years, when people realized that doctor wasn’t always “him” or “teacher” was either male or female. “they”, like “you” has been used as both singular and plural for a long time and using “him” as a default pronoun for everyone whose gender you don’t know would have been penalized long ago. I don’t know any school where “him” is still the default pronoun when you don’t know the gender of a manager, doctor, engineer, etc.
“They”, used to refer to an individual whose gender is known but where the individual prefers not to be refered as such is new. That’s where the biggest difficulty would be but typically the person would let you know (hence pronouns in one’s signature) and it’s just basic courtesy to use it even if you slip up from time to time using him/her.
I haven’t seen/heard/met people who used the pronouns from the chart above (#32, zie, sie, ey, ve…) I suppose that as time goes, one will become dominant and the others will disappear.
To answer the original question I know quite a few people, mostly younger than me (I’m in my 50s), but many in their 30s, so not just teens, who do use they/them pronouns or have transitioned socially (not had surgery, etc) and go by their preferred gender pronouns. This is not uncommon where I am at all. In fact my regular grocery store has buttons/badges for the cashiers to wear with their preferred pronouns.
I can get with “they”. It’s neutral and as many have pointed out we use it already as a singular pronoun when we don’t know the gender of the person, “Did you see what gouf78 posted? They had an interesting question.”
I don’t know about businesses asking this now? Do you mean do businesses ask their employees what pronouns they prefer? That seems likely for more woke businesses. I have never heard of a business asking a customer what pronoun they prefer, though. Not sure how that would come up since you are mostly talking one on one and not in the third person.
Why someone feels it is important to use alternative pronouns is the same as why someone might change their name and want you to use the new name (got married and got a new name, decided to go by their middle name, just picked a different name they liked, etc.) It’s not your call what name or pronouns someone else goes by.
However, this can be very very hard for parents of kids who want a different pronoun and all that goes with that (not feeling comfortable being ID’d as the gender they were born as/are perceived as). Of course, it’s even harder for the kid.
It’s hard enough for some parents when a kid just wants to change their name and no pronouns are involved. My mother-in-law cried when my husband wanted to go by a different nickname when he was 5. He stuck with it, though, and she adjusted fine. You will too.
Just wondering where are people from that they don’t know people who go by alternate pronouns? If you don’t feel comfortable saying the name of the place, maybe just the state and size of town? I’m in North Carolina and in Chapel Hill, home of UNC, so a pretty “woke” area.
Beyond nicknames, being the parent of a child who transitions to the opposite gender can be gut-wrenchingly difficult. I have two friends in this situation with adult children. I know they would appreciate it if people didn’t act like it should be an easy adjustment, unless the parent is transphobic. Good, loving, accepting parents can still have a very hard time. My friends are hesitant to show anything but a happy front for fear of being judged, but they need support and understanding.
This has been educational for me. I had to google what it meant. The only person I know who has transitioned is a classmate of one of my kids. They did it while attending college. I would not have recognized them on the street before the transition, and certainly not now.
I have no problems trying to address a person by their preferred pronoun. I admit I would prefer the they/them/you vs all those new words on that chart. But, I would hope that someone would not be offended if I messed up. It must get exhausting for the person to always say how they prefer to be addressed.
But here was one odd situation we did come across this weekend. We watched Juno for the first time, starring Ellen Page, who we also enjoy in the Umbrella Academy. But now Ellen is Elliot Page. So, when you talk about the performance in Juno, is it “she was really good in that?” “Her performance was great!” He was a she back then. I want to say the right thing, but admit it makes my head spin.
My wife has a friend whose child is going through this. She literally told my wife that she feels that the child she knew has died. My wife didn’t know how to comfort her.
I have a friend whose kid transitioned from female to male. She has no problems referring to him as he for anything he’s doing now, but when she’s talking about things that happened when he was a little girl, she finds it very hard to make the switch. It drives her son crazy, but she says it’s a remarkably hard habit to break, she wants to!
@Sweetgum – I do know several gay and nonbinary people. All relatively young. But it seems like a fad almost (I’m not saying it is). I’ve heard of zoom meetings where they go around the room and ask for pronouns–I’d probably tell them to mind their own business. Now it seems almost like a badge of honor.
Maybe it’s my age. Or I don’t get out much. From what I can find it seems very prevalent in liberal areas. I’m not in one of those areas. It’s why I’m asking. This is enlightening to me and very helpful.
Question: What has happened in society (I grew up with the feminist movement) that women now need to identify as men (or nonbinary) rather than as the strong women they are? To me it seems a cultural backslide. What is being put out there (honestly is there a questionnaire somewhere?) that identifies male vs female traits and people buy into it?
LOL–About your MIL–I wanted to change my name at three! My mom suggested my middle name. Nope. Didn’t like that either! I can still see her face. Obviously she dropped the subject figuring it would all go away. And it did. Now I like my name especially when I found out the reasons behind it. But honestly I couldn’t come up with anything better. Still haven’t.
I live in the DC/Baltimore suburbs. I don’t know anyone, or at least have not been introduced to anyone, who goes by alternate pronouns. I obviously know that this is becoming more commonplace, but so far have yet to be asked/told to call someone they/them. My 30 y/o niece recently told her parents she considers herself non-binary but at the same time, told them she has no plans to ask people to refer to her as they/them. I have no problem calling someone what they prefer to be called, tho if it is someone I’ve known for a long time, I’m sure it would be hard initially.
When S21 was filling out some information online for the university he is attending this fall, there were a few different times where there was a question about what pronouns he uses. My college sophomore and senior did not have these questions when they started college, though I know it is commonplace on campuses now.
I have a friend in a similar situation. Her child transitioned to the opposite gender (female to male). All I could do was listen and try to imagine.
It really brought home how a parent mourns for the child they bore. The name, the birth, the upbringing, baby pictures even. It’s truly like (or rather feels like) the child died in some way. It’s awful. They love their kid–but it is like a kick in the guts nonetheless. Worse is that (according to the mom) is that the medical profession railroaded the life altering surgery with a cheerleading squad rather than focusing on the life long ramifications .
I think it’s a pretty fraught situation to question.
I really do feel for the parents. It is adjacent to sexual orientation, but obviously not the same because it’s the child not feeling comfortable in the body they were born with, more internal to the child, rather than external and being attracted to people who aren’t of the opposite gender (same sex or bi or whatever) and being concerned how they fit into society. Although both face discrimination.
I do think it is trendy, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t real angst (for both the child and the parent). I have known a LOT of kids who questioned their gender. Most decided to stick with the gender they were born with, but some transitioned socially with a different name and pronouns and clothing, and some transitioned physically as well.
I just heard about one former classmate of my dd22’s who had left the country for a year, went on hormones, and now wants to detransition, but has had some physical changes due to the hormones so can’t really go back to the way she was. I really feel for her and her mom. Her dad died when she was around 11 or so and I wonder if that played into the decision. I don’t know. I don’t really know them that well.