Noncustodial CSS and Financial Aid at Wes

Paying for College
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<p>My son is applying to Wesleyan ED I. He is not a shoo-in, but I think he has a good chance, especially ED.</p>

<p>I'm a single mother. I recently lost my job and we are subsisting on child support and unemployment checks. If all they considered for FA was my income, or lack thereof, he'd be in great shape for an aid package. However, I believe my ex's income must be somewhere between 125K and 200K. We divorced when my son was three, and he lives abroad, but I can't get a Noncustodial CSS waiver since he pays regular child support, we know how to contact him, and my son even visited him last summer. </p>

<p>Does anyone know how Wes typically deals with this type of situation? I spoke to FA at Wes and they said they look at "ability to pay, not willingness." Do they consider the noncustodial parent's income as much as they consider the custodial parent's income? Does anyone have experience with this type of situation?</p>

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<p>*I spoke to FA at Wes and they said they look at “ability to pay, not willingness.” Do they consider the noncustodial parent’s income as much as they consider the custodial parent’s income? Does anyone have experience with this type of situation? *</p>

<p>When a schools says that they look at ability, not willingness, then believe them. The school is giving you fair warning that the NCP’s income will fully count.</p>

<p>Yes…in such cases, an NCP income is considered just as a CP parent’s income. </p>

<p>Has your ex said that he won’t contribute (or contribute much) for your child’s college education?</p>

<p>If so, then you need to be VERY CAREFUL with your son’s school selections. Obviously schools that require NCP info will be a problem.</p>

<p>Another problem is that schools that don’t require NCP income are usually the ones who don’t give much aid and will gap you.</p>

<p>I do NOT think applying ED to Wes is a good idea unless the NCP has agreed to do the paperwork and WILL PAY the family contribution. ** No one should apply ED to a school where he needs a lot of aid but won’t qualify for much/any.**</p>

<p>I know this isn’t what you want to hear, but you need to prepare your son NOW, that his choices may be limited because of this situation.</p>

<p>The good news is that if your son is considering Wes, then he probably has the stats to get big merit scholarships elsewhere. To protect himself, he needs to apply to some of these schools as financial safety schools.</p>

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<p>You can also be released from an ED agreement if the financial aid award is not sufficient for the student to attend. My son’s best friend applied ED to a very selective school with a situation very similar to yours. He applied ED, was accepted, and of course got an unaffordable aid package. His father was not willing to contribute anything. His mother appealed the financial aid award and the school did end up meeting the kid’s full need based only on his mother’s income (which is very low).</p>

<p>In fact the same kid transferred after the first year to yet another highly selective school and they ended up meeting his full need too.</p>

<p>I’m not saying it will work out this way for everyone, but applying ED with the intention of first appealing the aid award and if that doesn’t work then declining the acceptance is something you could do. Only thing is, your son needs to have those RD apps all set to go as soon as the ED decision comes back, if necessary.</p>

<p>I would advise, if you go this route, to have already submitted at least a couple applications to rolling admissions schools (state flagship or something like that) where your son would be willing to go if the finances don’t work out elsewhere. You can submit those right now (assuming he’s a high school senior). If you submit them prior to your ED app you are technically still within the ED rules.</p>

<p>All that said, the general advice in a situation like this is don’t apply ED. I’m just saying that if you and your son feel very strongly about this, you can do it as long as you are prepared for the hassles that will ensue; either you’ll be tangled in a FA appeals process that will be rather nerve-wracking without any predictability of a good outcome, or you’ll be in a mad scramble to get out all his other apps in a hurry over winter break when you’re likely not going to have access to counselors at his school, or both.</p>

<p>But… sometimes it works out. It depends on what you’re up for.</p>

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<p>IF Wes is clear #1 choice and you judge he has good shot to get admitted, I would go for it! Be prepared as discussed here to “discuss” situation with FA if/when needed…</p>

<p>Its not a hard/fast rule that NC income is simply added to the total…the ex has other financial obligations too, including potentially supporting another household and kids…</p>

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<p>If the ex won’t fill out the CSS forms, then you can’t apply to ANY school that requires those forms… Schools won’t process without that info. </p>

<p>If you let your son apply ED to Wes, then only do so with some very good financial back-ups in place. Many of the biggest and best scholarships offered by schools have EARLY application deadlines…such as November or Dec 1st. So, waiting could prove disastrous. </p>

<p>Some kids make the mistake of not applying to more schools until after the ED results come in.</p>

<p>The problem with that is schools that give generous merit scholarships</p>

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<p>Expect that Wes will want a full contribution from your ex. Very few Profile schools won’t. Your best bet will be FAFSA only schools.</p>

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<p>If I was in your situation or if my students were in your situation, I would not encourage them to apply ED to Wes. From my dealings with them they are not going to waive the NCP or the contribution do to his unwillingness to fillout the form or pay for college. They will most likely tell OP that they cannot complete the FA process without the information.</p>

<p>I have noticed over the past few years that at some schools it is becoming harder to get NCP waivers even with documentation.</p>

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<p>*Your best bet will be FAFSA only schools. *</p>

<p>I think their best bet will be FAFSA-only schools that give big merit for stats since the mom wrote…</p>

<p>*I recently lost my job and we are subsisting on child support and unemployment checks. *</p>

<p>If the school doesn’t give big merit aid, the student is likely going to get a big ole gap at FAFSA only schools. There are only a small number of schools that are FAFSA only that also give great need-based aid.</p>

<p>*I have noticed over the past few years that at some schools it is becoming harder to get NCP waivers even with documentation. *</p>

<p>This doesn’t surprise me.</p>

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<p>Thanks to all of your for your thoughtful responses. Mom2collegekids, can you recommend some FAFSA-only schools that give good need-based aid?</p>

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<p>There are very few unless merit aid is included in the mix. </p>

<p>Your son needs to talk to his dad and find out what, if anything, the father is willing to contribute to college. </p>

<p>Given the fact that you have only a subsistence income, you need to assume that your son’s EFC at any school requiring non custodial parent information will be based on the father’s income – you might try running his income through a FAFSA calculator, as if he were the custodial parent – or redoing the FAFSA calculation as if you were still married, including his income – for a very, very rough idea of the RANGE that the EFC might fall in. </p>

<p>It is insane to allow your son to apply ED to Wes under these circumstances – you don’t even know what the father’s income is - if your son gets accepted, you will have at best an <em>estimate</em> of financial aid in December, which could evaporate entirely if your ex turns in NCP forms in the spring showing a substantially higher income – and what’s more, you will never be able to see those forms to see what info the ex has provided. </p>

<p>I think your son realistically needs to be looking at in-state public options. The primary concern in your situation needs to be finances.</p>

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<p>The rub is no one can identify a FAFSA only school that meets need. Your in state schools will typically be where you’ll get the most. For merit aid, see the thread at the top of this board.</p>

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<p>^^Or FAFSA schools that discount tution etc. based on test scores and GPA. Or colleges that participate in consortiums to discount tuition with neighboring states. The meeting need part is the rub, but along with your own public unis ther are other publics that can end up costing nearly the same or slightly less (if you are in a high cost state). OP there are excellent “stickies” with threads addressing your questions about good finaid and scholarships that discount tuition. Look at the very top list of the lists of threads.</p>

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<p>*can you recommend some FAFSA-only schools that give good need-based aid? *</p>

<p>There really aren’t that many FAFSA-only schools that give good need-based aid. The only one I can think of is Chapman U in Southern Calif.</p>

<p>However, all is not lost… </p>

<p>1) What are your son’s stats…GPA…SAT breakdown…ACT composite</p>

<p>2) Have your son ask his dad how much he will contribute. You need to know this NOW. If the answer is “nothing” or something rather small for his high income (such as $15k per year), then at least you know what you’re dealing with. </p>

<p>3) What is your son’s likely major?</p>

<p>4) Should we assume that you can’t contribute anything?</p>

<p>5) Assuming that your son has highish stats since he is considering Wes, then there are some schools that would give him big merit scholarships for his stats.</p>

<p>FAFSA-only schools will likely give you Pell grants (if your EFC is low enough), work-study, and a student loan for need-based aid. However, some give big merit scholarships as well. :)</p>

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<p>I would just add that even if your son’s dad says he will contribute – unless you have a binding agreement with him, your son really can not risk applying ED. You are just putting your son in an untenable situation if his Dad fails to come through for any reason (good or bad) – not only would your son be left without a college choice, but it could also create unnecessary tension between father or son. </p>

<p>To put it another way: the ED contract is something that should be entered into only with parental approval or consent. So if I turned things around and imagined your kid’s father as a terrific guy who wants to do what is best for his kid… I’m left with a situation where you & the son are making a commitment that will potentially obligate him to pay a huge amount of money, without his being given any choice in the matter. </p>

<p>Now - take it one step further – assuming that the relationship with the father is more ambiguous – how are you going to ASK or negotiate with your ex for a contribution if you & your son have committed to one college rather than shopping around? I think the father would be perfectly within his rights to say that he’s willing to contribute a specific amount to college and not a penny more because he was never consulted during the application process. </p>

<p>So even though I see things from the perspective of a mom who spent 4 years of stress just trying to convince a non-contributing ex spouse to fill out the paperwork every year – I also do feel that if you would like the man to contribute any significant amount to his son’s college, he needs to be in on the whole application process.</p>

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<p>*I would just add that even if your son’s dad says he will contribute – unless you have a binding agreement with him, your son really can not risk applying ED. You are just putting your son in an untenable situation if his Dad fails to come through for any reason (good or bad) – not only would your son be left without a college choice, but it could also create unnecessary tension between father or son. *</p>

<p>Calmom makes an excellent point!!!</p>

<p>The potential problem is this…</p>

<p>Say the dad says that he’ll pay whatever his fair share of the “family contribution” is…which could be as high as $45k or more…depending on his income AND savings. So, your son accepts Wes. Perhaps the dad pays for the first year or two, but then says that he will no longer pay. Your child will be SCREWED because it will be too late to get the merit scholarships that he could have gotten as an incoming freshman.</p>

<p>Your son could find himself with one year of education and no where to go for years 2, 3, or 4. :frowning: </p>

<p>Or, the dad could say “yes” this month, but then say “no” next summer when payments are due. You won’t have any legal recourse to make him follow thru and again, it will be too late to get the merit scholarships from other schools…</p>

<p>This isn’t an NCP that has had daily/weekly physical contact with your child. You mention that he lives in another country.</p>

<p>Yes, he’s paid support and there’s been some visits, but this isn’t the same as a child who spent most of his life living with his dad and his parents only divorced recently and there is still very frequent life involvement. </p>

<p>Even if you got something in writing from the ex that he’ll pay, since he lives in another country it would be nearly impossible to enforce.</p>

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<p>My ex isn’t going to contribute anything, but I think he will fill out the NC CSS. My plan is to appeal whatever package we get, and fill in the rest with loans. Is this unrealistic? If worst comes to worst, you can get out of an ED commitment if the reason is financial. My son will also apply to other colleges, that have merit-based aid, this fall, so he will have other options. When I asked the Wes admissions dean when we visited about what would happen if someone is admitted ED but can’t pay, he said he knows of only 2 cases at Wes where someone had to back out of an ED commitment because of money. </p>

<p>Mom2collegekids, you asked about my son’s stats: 33 ACT composite (breakdown: English 35; Math 29; reading 35; Science 33; Combined English/Writing 31) </p>

<p>SAT Subject test Biology, Ecology, 680
Subject Test World History 730 </p>

<p>He’s taking the SAT Oct. 9, but recent practice test scores are
Math 660
Reading 730
Writing 710
Total 2100
Essay Score: 10</p>

<p>GPA 3.8</p>

<p>What merit scholarships, if any, do you think he could get?</p>

<p>Again, many thanks to all of you!</p>

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<p>My ex isn’t going to contribute anything, but I think he will fill out the NC CSS. My plan is to appeal whatever package we get, and fill in the rest with loans. Is this unrealistic?</p>

<p>NO…not realistic. Actually, quite an awful plan. (sorry to be so harsh, but the idea of taking out loans each year to cover your big family contribution is just awful and probably won’t work anyway.)</p>

<p>How could you possibly take out huge loans each year? First of all, you won’t qualify each year, and secondly, how could you possibly pay them back?</p>

<p>Your ex’s income is going to give you a LARGE expected family contribution…probably at LEAST $40k per year or more. Do you really think that you could qualify each year for loans that big? </p>

<p>Appealing isn’t going to work. Your ex has been in your child’s life and has been paying child support. There’s no way the school is going to give your child a generous FA package when he has a parent who is making a LOT of money!! That would turn the whole FA process on its head. </p>

<p>He’s taking the SAT Oct. 9, but recent practice test scores are
Math 660
Reading 730
Writing 710
Total 2100
Essay Score: 10</p>

<p>**If your son can get his M+CR score to at least a 1400, he has some good opportunities for big merit at some schools. The Writing score doesn’t weigh much with schools. Tell your son to really study Math and CR sections. Also, sign him up for the Nov SAT. ** </p>

<p>Wes’s stats</p>

<p>Test Scores
Middle 50% of First-Year Students </p>

<p>SAT Critical Reading: … 640 - 750<br>
SAT Math: … 650 - 750<br>
SAT Writing: … 640 - 740
ACT Composite: … 29 - 33 </p>

<p>So, you can see, the top 25% of students at Wes have stats HIGHER than these scores. </p>

<p>Your son’s projected scores aren’t high enough for Wes to really want to make it affordable. His projected scores put him in the middle of the school. That isn’t good.</p>

<p>Sometimes schools give more leeway to students who have stats in the top 5%. That would require nearly perfect SAT scores.</p>

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<p>The major drawback to applying ED with a need for large FA (especially when it is highly likely that the need will not be met due to a high income NCP) is that some deadlines for scholarships that he may have qualified for may already have passed. Some schools seem to give more $$ to those who applied early and there is less available should you decide to apply later-EVEN if you are still applying before the deadline.</p>

<p>My D did not apply ED anywhere (for entirely different reasons). She did apply rolling and EA to some schools. She rec’d a fairly large merit scholarship from our state flagship and the Val from her class did not!! I know my D SAT scores were higher, but she also applied very early and had the acceptance and scholarship offer in hand well before the deadline. One EA school admitted her, but we did not find out about a merit scholarship until late winter/early spring, well after any ability to weigh it against an ED offer and preliminary financial aid that may have been on the table, had she pursued that route.</p>

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<p>bhmomma makes some excellent points and gives a good strategy for your son. Practice scores do nto mean anything. Even if the practice scores were from a real test, those scores do not make him a lock for Wes (especially as an unhooked candidate). On the off chance that he was accepted, remember when one applies ED you are essentially saying that in exchange for an early decision, that if admitted, you will commit to attend pretty much regardless of what the financial aid package you are given. Wes is not a school that likes to “negotiate” financial aid so unless there is a really extenuating situation that occured once you filed, you will not be getting anymore money from them (your ex changing their mind as to how much he will contribute is not an extenuating situation). </p>

<p>I totally agree that he needs to be in a position to compare FA packages (which he cannot do ED). He needs to apply EA/Rolling and RD and take ED off of the table.</p>

<p>The biggest flaw in your strategy is by the time he hears from the ED school it is right before the holiday break. Many RD applications are due dec 31. Your son will not be released from the ED school by this time. As a way keep students from gaming the system, many schools do not go forward in the application process until they have received in writing from the ED school that the student has been released.</p>

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<p>“… remember when one applies ED you are essentially saying that in exchange for an early decision, that if admitted, you will commit to attend pretty much regardless of what the financial aid package you are given.”</p>

<p>Wes uses the Common Application, and the above is not part of the ED FA agreement, which actually is:

<a href=“https://www.commonapp.org/CommonApp/docs/downloadforms/ED_Agreement.pdf[/url]”>https://www.commonapp.org/CommonApp/docs/downloadforms/ED_Agreement.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>So there is no “danger” in applying ED needing FA (you take it or leave it), but you do indeed lose the ability to compare FA offers. ED needing FA is appropriate only if you have that one dream school above all others, where the only question is: can I afford it?</p>