<p>Willamette U in Salem OR and Occidental both come to my mind as well as Scripps</p>
<p>Well, my D graduated from Smith last year and while her social life included alcohol, it was hardly alcohol centered and Smith has one of the lowest drug/alcohol usages among LAC’s…where’s Mini to the cite the report when you need him? Also it’s a large LAC (medium) and pretty green, in both usages of the word.</p>
<p>Rural, residential, whiter than average, richer than average, coed, non-religious, heavy in spectator sports, fraternities.</p>
<p>Wechsler at the Havard School of Public Health found those 8 characteristics associated with higher than average binge drinking. At the “average” school, 41% or so of students engaged in binge drinking in the past two weeks. Between 15-25% were totally abstinent. So small differences from that 41% make a big difference in campus “feel”. On a campus where binge drinking is 50%+ plus (not uncommon at some of the rural prestige LACs), if there are 20% abstainers, moderate drinkers are in a distinct minority (and vanishing). If, in contrast, binge drinkers are 30% or so, moderate drinkers and abstainers become a clear majority.</p>
<p>So you can really do this yourself. I have yet to find a school with all eight of those characteristics above which did not have more than the median in binge drinking, and I think the same is true for seven. Some schools actually publishing their CORE survey numbers - every college has them, and will give them to you if you ask the campus coordinator (often a dean). But you really don’t need them to know what is going on. </p>
<p>Campus policies DO make a difference. Officially “dry” campuses are never dry, but they tend to have lower bingeing rates, and less public partying. Schools that pursue social norms marketing campaigns, IF they began with average or lower than average binge drinking rates to start with, end up with lower bingeing rates. If you kick the tires, you can find out a lot.</p>
<p>Rural, residential, whiter than average, richer than average, coed, non-religious, heavy in spectator sports, fraternities.</p>
<p>Which is why I was puzzled why my devoutly LDS sister sent her two daughters to Colgate.</p>
<p>Maybe she wanted the kids to have whiter teeth. ;)</p>
<p>ProxyGC, your daughter sounds a lot like mine, although she explored religious (loved Pepperdine ) and girls ( loved Scripps, but not Smith) schools. Ended up at Duke, passed on the sub. free housing, and while first semester was a little shaky, is now doing just fine. Not saying Duke is the way to go, but that even with a rep for drinking, it’s got enough size, EC’s, and diversity so that everyone seems to find their place.</p>
<p>What about “substance free dorms” ? We were told by a student guide at one college tour that these dorms tend to collect those that already have substance problems and will turn out to be worse (as people relapse).</p>
<p>Anybody have experience with these?</p>
<p>D1, a rising hs junior, told me recently that she’d heard that one of the schools mentioned upthread was a place with a reputation for not having parties, so therefore she wasn’t interested in it. Since she wants a school without overwhelming drinking or a dominant greek culture, I asked her “Well, what do you mean by a “party”? Do you mean parties with lots of drinking and casual sex?” D1 looked rather taken aback (only partly because it was one of her parents saying this). “Or, do you mean parties with loud music and people talking and dancing and blowing off steam?” She said yeah, that’s what she wanted. She’d assumed that if a school didn’t have a party rep, that meant that it was all studying, all the time.</p>
<p>I don’t think of D1 as being that sheltered, but she wasn’t thinking of “party” in the classic “party school” terms. It’s rather annoying that the entire meaning of “party” has been co-opted to mean just one thing.</p>
<p>Does anyone have personal knowledge of Earlham? I imagined from the descriptions in the guide books I read that they might have calmer parties there.</p>
<p>I do. Substantially below average (in bingeing numbers), though the last survey I saw was about four years ago. (things don’t usually change that much. There is drinking, but it is a “religious school” (even if of a different variety). No frats, no heavy spectator sports, either. Officially “dry” (which doesn’t mean there isn’t drinking, only that RAs or campus police will pour out alcohol if they see it.)</p>
<p>I haven’t read this whole thread… so sorry if this isn’t your cup of tea:</p>
<p>If you are hardcore about math/science/engineering you should look seriously into Harvey Mudd College. The campus has quite an intellectual vibe and you’ll find that most students are non-religious. However, there is quite some variety regarding the drinking/smoking lifestyle. (Though, still most are pretty straight-edge)</p>
<p>I agree with Gadad that it might be better not to be sequestered from the issues of the “larger world,” while at college.</p>
<p>Although, of course, alcohol use for under 21’s is illegal, both our college students, one a son and one a daughter, have been around a lot of drinking at their colleges (both Ivies).</p>
<p>I have raised them to think of alcohol as a GOOD substance, one that has been used for celebration, connection and even digestion, throughout human history. All the “just say no” D.A.R.E. propaganda struck me as having the wrong message. Ultimately, kids should know how to use alcohol properly, not abuse it- and avoiding it entirely is not necessary unless a person has alcoholism or other health condition that warrants avoidance (and, of course, it is illegal until 21- ahem!). When I was 15, I was given sherry to drink with holiday meals: a ritual that let us know that we should be well-trained and ready for the privilege.</p>
<p>Be aware that our kids’ schools, the students who required ambulances were generally “good” kids" who had never done any drinking in high school. It is good to discuss alcohol with your daughter, even if she says she does not want to drink. Not drinking out of the bottle, for instance, the difference between hard liquor, beer and wine, and the fact that the body can metabolize 2 oz. in an hour. Our daughter’s college had an online exam on all this, that everyone had to take before coming. You cannot predict the changes that happen for kids at college.</p>
<p>After years of being absolutist and moralistic against drinking, our son drank with his (high achieving) friends in senior year of high school, and drank too much in his first year at college, playing beer pong mainly. He worked hard, he was in transition, and he played around with the whole drinking thing to blow off steam, as did his friends. After that, he slacked off with the drinking. He was extremely successful and won an award for all his contributions to the school. You should teach your daughter to be tolerant of all this. She will miss out on good friends! </p>
<p>Our daughter never drank in high school, and had no desire to drink in college. She is not at all social, and is a very mature, centered person. Early on, the boys in her dorm (I think 4-6 guys and 1 girls were there) offered, as a joke, to have “wine pong” instead of beer pong, because she refused to drink beer (she is allergic). They actually obtained a bottle of white wine. This was sweet and funny, and she had a glass, and sat in the room while they drank and played games, while she read the NY Times on the couch. It was quite comfortable. These same boys came to her for advice a lot, perhaps because she had spent time with them that night. She found she didn’t like alcohol much, and she has a health condition that would make being drunk rather dangerous, but I thought it was much better that she was not absolute about it.</p>
<p>So, why does your daughter not want to drink? What does she think of kids who do? There are many ways to drink, and partying (in the sense of big parties) is only one of them. </p>
<p>Again, I am not condoning behavior that is illegal, but I do believe the drinking age should be reduced to reduce bingeing and increase civilized use of alcohol on campuses.</p>
<p>Thanks mini, I thought I had heard that about Earlham, probably from you.</p>
<p>compmom, I think the OP says her D is tolerant, but I can certainly understand why it would be more pleasant to be in a place where most of the parties aren’t full of drunk, sick kids. A matter of degree.</p>
<p>2bizee, I heard the same, this was on a tour at UVA when we asked about sub. free housing, that it was for rehabbers mostly. </p>
<p>We did tour Scripps and it felt absolutely right–loved the consortium too, but unfortunately would need lots of merit/travel money. If only there were a version on the East coast; is there? Bryn Mawr has no music or fine arts; those are at Haverford. We haven’t looked at the other women’s colleges. </p>
<p>For background, at our HS 90% are drinking by senior year, and many binge on weekends. Even the middle school has a problem. Too much money and too little supervision here. Some come to school with liquor in water bottles. There aren’t many parties or potential friends to choose from if a kid doesn’t want to be around the drunken behavior–this is why DD throws her own parties–but the list shrinks a little each year because we don’t let kids drink at our home. I fully understand DD’s aversion to going someplace where excess drinking/drugging is the dominant entertainment, or dominates the social scene. Coupled with all that, her older sibling has dealt with a binge drinking roommate this past year, and we’ve heard the stories about rescue and cleanup, this at one of the supposed “Stone Cold Sober” colleges mentioned in one of the posts above (don’t believe everything you read!)-not to mention that we’ve paid dorm damage bills shared by all residents after parties! So, she’d just like to improve the odds of a sane, fun, varied social life without chemical enhancement; this kid is not an introvert, she just doesn’t enjoy being around kids under the influence, after seeing what effect it has on them. Who can blame her?</p>
<p>My d. was a music composition/Italian studies major at Smith, and both were superb! (she liked Scripps as well, but even with their consortium, the opportunities at Smith were significantly richer.)</p>
<p>I noticed that boysx3 mentioned Goucher. My d sounds a lot like yours, received good merit $, and is really enjoying Goucher. Although females outnumber males, my d noted that “the guys are all my type.”(???) I was laughing too hard to question further, but I think she meant there weren’t many rude, crude, hard-partying types.
Also, she has had great teachers, small classes.</p>
<p>mini, Smith has a landscape studies minor which looks very cool. Thanks for the tip. When you say richer opportunities at Smith than Scripps, how so?</p>
<p>I “third” Goucher…it appealed to my rather agnostic, non-drinking, musical very centered D. It lost out due to being 8 miles from our door. There is a lot to do around Goucher - Towson is a small city, and there are several other colleges close by. And it has this very sylvan/natural feel, local stone on all of the buildings and lots of trees.</p>
<p>If you do look at it, make sure your D interviews and shows interest. I think we lost out on merit due to being local and we never found the time with 9 other schools on the list to interview.</p>
<p>“mini, Smith has a landscape studies minor which looks very cool. Thanks for the tip. When you say richer opportunities at Smith than Scripps, how so?”</p>
<p>Both musical and language opportunities were much broader and deeper. (I think that is also true in the sciences, even with Scripps combined program.) Scripps has my favorite core curriculum in the U.S.! Feel free to PM me.</p>
<p>Goucher was very sylvan. There were deer on the campus when we visited. The international flavor was incredible. I would recommend this school. It was a safety for my son, but he picked his safeties carefully–Goucher and Lewis and Clark. Both very international. Good merit money and both good schools.</p>