<p>Thanks to all who pm'd me on last post. I appreciate the info. If any of you
are on the college search board here and see my message re: non drinker
would you weigh in with any ideas. I would so appreciate it. Feeling very
frustrated at this point. Thanks.</p>
<p>Among the non-religious (non-Latter Day Saints, non-fundamentalist) schools that we saw, drinking played less a part of college life, and there tended to be more moderate drinkers and more abstainers at all of the women's colleges (both east and west), Swarthmore, and Earlham (which is officially dry, and it is enforced.)</p>
<p>There are abstainers (20% give or take) at virtually all of the better colleges and uni.s, but that says little about the campus environment or campus life.</p>
<p>I'm not quite sure what you're looking for. Are you looking for a college that is completely devoid of drinking? You'd be hard pressed to find one, excluding the religious schools. Mini made some good suggestions, but bear in mind that a non-drinker can find a place at most any school; the fact that there are kids who drink doesn't detract from the quality of the school or the social life.</p>
<p>Thanks Mini. The women's colleges have come up as a possibility, but D isn't sure how she feels about that. Checked out Mt. H but found it very insular.
Her HS now is about 1800. Religious based schools come up but the 'religious' kids here (youth groups etc) are really very intolerant judgemental (read fearful) of others and D has been turned off by this. Did at one time belong to youth group but has found them as stated above. She is probably considered liberal in her view by most and she doesn't drink or smoke pot.
Oh well, the search continues, any suggestions most welcome. Does anyone find this somewhat disheartening?</p>
<p>re: the women's colleges, I found wellesley to be great in that respect, and its close enough to Boston that I don't think you'd feel isolated.</p>
<p>Thanks Elizabeth. Looking for a school where drinking doesn't dominate the social scene. Where the social scene includes plenty of people who don't
"party hard", in fact a school where MOST people don't 'party' every night
or where the weekend doesn't begin on Wednesday or Thirsty Thursday would be nice. I disagree with you that alcohol usage doesn't impact the college experience, when alcohol abuse is the main form of entertainment
on a campus all are affected in too many ways to mention from day to day
living with it, to safety, to lowered standards, to limited social experiences,
to violence, .....on and on. Any ideas other than religious schools please?</p>
<p>mama- I am hoping to see a good turnout to your thread here.</p>
<p>First, S and we visited Lehigh (which you had mentioned your D finds intersting, but is worried re drinking). We did only a tour/info session and an extra engineering tour, so we don't have "real-life" experience there, nor overnight experience. However, we did not get the feeling of an overwhelming drinking culture, nor an overwhelming Greek culture. By not "overwhelming", I mean that we met numerous students who spend there time differently and are happy there. </p>
<p>S is not a party-hearty kid. He has not been a hs drinker, has avoided the crowd heavily into that, and has chosen not to participate even with close friend when they are spending an evening in that direction. I do expect he will drink in college, but am crossing fingers that it will be moderate and occasional.</p>
<p>S did not choose Lehigh, but he did choose Tulane. Both of these are often listed as "drinking" schools. Yet, I didn't observe and do not think that the drinking culture is "dominant" at either. </p>
<p>So, My concerns are these:<br>
1)If one rules out schools which someone else has stereotyped as "drinking" schools, is that just jumping out of the frying pan into the fire? Mini has the stats,(if my memory isn't <em>too</em> faulty :o) but it seems that many, many, many schools hover just one side or the other of 50% of students reporting that they have participated in binge drinking. So, what really identifies a true "drinking" school?
2)How much can one trust his or her parental antenna when visiting a school? If you feel you are meeting kids who are enjoying the academics, enjoying student life, engaged at the college, but are light-, moderate- or non-drinkers, can you trust that observation?
3)S spent 2 nights at the Honors dorm at Tulane (one weekday, one weeknight). He was not about to report to me on the extent of drinking he observed. However, I did ask him if he felt he'd be able to continue his current study pattern of studying in his room (books strewn on bed, desk used only when at computer) or whether he'd need to study in the library or elsewhere. He said the dorm room would work fine. I took that as a sign that drinking problems would not be overwhelming. Is this a good indicator?
3)It seems to me from what I've read here/observed that many of the schools which people think of/stereotype as "drinking" places are not much different from many which people stereotype as "serious" and by implication not "drinking" schools.
4) So how do you rule them in or out. Someone (mini) had a thread or post about the factors which contribute to a more prevalent drinking culture. I think they were things like %Greek (what is the tipping point?), isolated/ rural setting, and others I don't remember.</p>
<p>All of this rambling means that I see people casting about for "non-drinking" schools and (I'm afraid) being steered away, based on stereotype, from some schools which might actually be fine, thus missing a good match.</p>
<p>Mine is at Smith, and is FAR from isolated. Northampton is a great town. (we too found Mt. Holyoke "bucolic"). </p>
<p>Again, there are one-fifth non-drinkers at most good schools, but that's a far cry from saying that the non-drinkers (or event the moderate drinkers) are not affected by the rest of the social environment. "Thirsty Thursday" will eliminate a very large portion of what are otherwise to be considered very fine colleges. Risk factors are (in no particular order): residential, Greek, heavy athletics, rural, isolated, median income above the norm, Northeast and Midwest, non-religious. I think another worth adding, but I haven't seen studies, are schools with low average entrance age (17-18 - i.e. few older students.)</p>
<p>I think that it is socially more acceptable to be a non-drinker now than when I was in college and the drinking age was 18. Both of my kids went to colleges that were academically focused. Yes, there were parties, but they found many good friends that did not drink at all. If you choose a college that is truly focused on learning there will be a greater percentage of students that do not drink. Colleges that focus on sports/tailgating and Greek life tend to have a greater percentage of drinkers...but there will still be a core group of of students that choose not to drink even in that atmosphere...
It is also important that the campus (and the surrounding town/city) have lots of opportunities for activities outside of class...Bored college kids tend to get involved with drinking if they fail to find something else to keep them occupied. Going to a religious college does not prevent students from drinking. There are often financial penalties if someone is caught drinking, but even religious college students that want to drink will find a way to do so...</p>
<p>Even "party" schools where tolerance and respect for all is the guiding principle can be good places. Most schools have substance free dorms that will hook you up with non drinkers freshman year.</p>
<p>The places you do not want are drinking schools in isolated locations. You want a school that offers lots to do-- tons of events, lectures, performances, etc each weekend. Places like Vassar have tons to do and are large enough that 20% is 400+ kids.</p>
<p>Earlham sounds like your D. Maybe Macalester, and other liberal LACs in urban locations? Swarthmore, Haverford?</p>
<p>Good Luck.</p>
<p>Thank you all so much, just looking for a little support and info here and thankfully am finding it. I think overnights will be a big part of this process for D. As far as Lehigh is concerned, have heard from recent grads (2) that drinking is actually a problem for students there. Both are self described social drinkers. I do think the isolation factor and the Greek thing are
big tipping points. Will keep looking, thanks again.</p>
<p>My underage kids don't drink. However they have friends who do and they were brought up not to reject people for making different choices. Tolerance is a two way street. You'd be better off telling your daughter "to thine own self be true" and to mind her own self and not everyone else. </p>
<p>All that DARE, pseudo-nazi, watch what people drink stuff should be left behind in middle school. Time to grow up and join the real world where people drink.</p>
<p>Mama, can you tell us what your daughter is looking for besides the non-drinking? Maybe we could be more helpful if you could let us know the other things she's interested in... and then we can help you get a fix on the campus culture.</p>
<p>There are schools where I'm sure there are heavy drinkers but where on a Thursday night you'll find many kids in the library or practicing for a performance or attending a poetry reading. What is she into besides avoiding alchohol? That seems to be a poor way to find a match.</p>
<p>Hi mcdeb, my daughter doesn't judge others, she just chooses not to join in certain behaviors. One of the issues she faced here was leaving the youth group at our church as she found them to be exactly what you call intolerant and judgemental. I do know what you mean though, there is a culture of reporting on others at our HS now, a poor attempt by admin to curb the problem. D is not into that at all. She attends a school of 1800 where the primary weekend activity revolves around drinking, so she is certainly aware of what goes on and clearly has seen the results of some very unfortunate incidents. Thus she doesn't attend most of the parties, she keeps to her small group of non drinking friends instead.
She didn't care much for DARE by the way and questioned the presenters
qualifications and data. I hope you can understand that she is seeking a culture where alcohol doesn't rule and she doesn't have to seek out "one"
friend who doesn't drink also. Blossom-Thanks! D enjoys school sponsored events, (comedian, talent nights, student rallies, sporting events etc), local dance clubs non alcoholic teen nights, house parties w/o alcohol, movies,
local coffee house for chat, meeting etc., plays, bookstores, quirky shops.
Works as a lifeguard, sings in vocal ensemble. Some school/community service as well. Basically happy, hard working, academics are important to her
Does that help? Thanks.</p>
<p>
[quote]
the fact that there are kids who drink doesn't detract from the quality of the school or the social life.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That is not necessarily born out by the anecdotal evidence or the research in the field. Quite the contrary, college campuses with above average amounts of heavy drinking do tend to interfere with the social life and quality of experience for non-drinkers and moderate drinkers. The likelihood of having your study or sleep disturbed, being insulted or attacked, having unwanted sexual advances made, and a number of other indicators is some 50% higher at a heavy drinking school compared to a low drinking school. </p>
<p>By "low drinking school", we are still talking about plenty of drinking, but where only, say, 30% of the campus had 5 drinks in a row at least once in the prior two weeks. We aren't talking about temperance conventions here...just schools were heavy drinking is not the dominant theme of campus social life. In an environment where 60% or more of the students did not drink heavily in the prior two weeks, you are much more likely to not feel marginalized as a non-drinker or occasional drinker. And, you are much less likely to have to deal with negatives of a heavy drinking environment.</p>
<p>Thank you interesteddad, you've said it so well, exactly what I'm talking about. Whew!</p>
<p>Haven't read through all the posts so sorry if I am repeating, Pepperdine, USD, and St Louis University are all strict on drinking on campus.(no guarantee of what goes on off campus however) All schools however have substance free floors and usually non drinkers are respected everywhere. These are just some of the colleges in my D's search that we came upon. Of course Brigham Young is the dryest campus. There is a list as well in Princeton Review of dry campuses.</p>
<p><<i hope="" you="" can="" understand="" that="" she="" is="" seeking="" a="" culture="" where="" alcohol="" doesn't="" rule="" and="" have="" to="" seek="" out="" "one"="" friend="" who="" drink="" also.="">></i></p><i hope="" you="" can="" understand="" that="" she="" is="" seeking="" a="" culture="" where="" alcohol="" doesn't="" rule="" and="" have="" to="" seek="" out="" "one"="" friend="" who="" drink="" also.="">
<p>My child goes to Lehigh and is a non-drinker with many friends who participate in varied activities ranging from engineering competitions to tutoring to the college newspaper to being Gryphons (RAs). Some of them drink and some of them don't. My children don't wholly reject people simply b/c they choose to drink. That would be their loss.</p>
</i>
<p><<quite the="" contrary,="" college="" campuses="" with="" above="" average="" amounts="" of="" heavy="" drinking="" do="" tend="" to="" interfere="" social="" life="" and="" quality="" experience="" for="" non-drinkers="" moderate="" drinkers.="" likelihood="" having="" your="" study="" or="" sleep="" disturbed,="" being="" insulted="" attacked,="" unwanted="" sexual="" advances="" made,="" a="" number="" other="" indicators="" is="" some="" 50%="" higher="" at="" school="" compared="" low="" school.="">></quite></p>
<p>Care to cite that statistic? Frankly, I think this whole drinking issue is really a control issue of the parents. It's time to let go folks.</p>
<p>Once again mcdeb, just because D doesn't drink, doesn't mean she "wholly rejects" those who do. Why do you think that? Try to get this-she chooses not to participate in an activity SHE dislikes and since that activity seems to dominate the social environs of so many campuses, she's trying to find schools where social interaction doesn't revolve around it. She'd like to find a campus where more than a handful of students don't drink. What exactly is wrong with that please? As for control, clearly D is in charge of her behavior, as are we all. Good thing you're not judgemental.</p>