Norcalguy's Residency Application Process

<p>A little off topic but thought I’d pass this along to all the about to be newly minted MDs.</p>

<p>I’m a REALTOR with the Sotheby’s International Realty affiliate Dallas and am helping a number of my son’s classmates who are both staying here and moving away with their relocation/housing.</p>

<p>It’s not widely known but a number of loan programs exist for Physicians, including Residents, that offer 100% financing, NO Private Mortgage Insurance, 15 and 30 year amortization and “special consideration” given on student loan debt when calculating debt to income ratios.</p>

<p>With interest rates as low as they are, many are finding it possible to buy a home, condo etc and have payments at or below what they might be renting for.</p>

<p>If anyone is interested in having me refer them to a REALTOR who can help them find something to lease/buy in their new locales, PM me and I’d be happy to help. There are Sotheby offices across the country and if there isn’t one we have relationships with offices nationwide. It can be daunting moving away and trying to figure out who to call to help assist with a lease/purchase so a referral to a trusted “partner” can help alleviate at least some of the stress you are facing.</p>

<p>Again, congrats to all and good luck on the next chapter of your lives.</p>

<p>Can I pretend to be a doctor and you get me one of those? I’d like a townhome in Telluride.</p>

<p>Congratulations to the others who matched. The forms are already started to file in regarding licensing, health requirements, etc. prior to the start of residency. </p>

<p>And, yes, in the hospital, “medicine” means “internal medicine.”</p>

<p>I ran into this article in which the evolution of the residency program (as well as the medical education in general) is described. An interesting read for a newbie like me.</p>

<p>[Medical</a> education: Information from Answers.com](<a href=“Answers - The Most Trusted Place for Answering Life's Questions”>Answers - The Most Trusted Place for Answering Life's Questions)</p>

<p>the postwar period witnessed several important curricular innovations: the development of an organ-based curriculum by Western Reserve (1950s); the invention of “problem-based” learning by McMaster (1970s); the introduction of a primary care curriculum by New Mexico (1980s); and the establishment of the “New Pathway” program at Harvard Medical School (1980s).

Between 1940 and 1970, the number of residency positions at U.S. hospitals increased from 5,796 to 46,258. Thus, the number of residents seeking specialty training soared. At the same time, the academic component of residency training diminished. Residency became an exclusively clinical training ground rather than a preparation point for clinical research as before. Most physicians desiring research training now had to acquire that through Ph.D. programs or postgraduate research fellowships.

By 1990, the number of clinical faculty at U.S. medical schools had grown to around 85,000, with most of the increase occurring in the clinical departments. By that time one-half of a typical medical school’s income came from the practice of medicine by the full-time faculty.

During the managed care era of the 1990s, the parsimonious payments of many third-party payers began causing academic health centers considerable financial distress. For instance, in 2000 the University of Pennsylvania Health System suffered a $200 million operating loss. (All hospitals were threatened financially by managed care, but teaching centers, because of their higher costs, were particularly vulnerable.)</p>

<p>There is an interesting article in JAMA (3/21/12) about shortening medical training by 30%</p>

<p>^ I saw that article too. It seems like a great idea, but I doubt we can expect any major changes in the future. =(</p>

<p>There are some very good points in the article, and while I don’t think massive changes will reach the system any time soon, there are some points that are changing. </p>

<p>For example, the American Board of Pediatrics is looking at reducing the length of some fellowships - currently all peds fellowships are 3 years, which in some cases is a barrier to recruitment to these fields (there’s zero need for someone to spend 3 years doing adolescent medicine in order to become board certified other than that’s the way it’s always been). Peds is interesting because for a very long time, fellows were the driving force behind pediatric research, and because of the smaller numbers of patients needing subspecialty care, almost by definition, specializing meant you were going to join an academic center. But since peds specialization doesn’t lead to the big monetary gain that it does in the adult world, spending the time on all that training doesn’t make sense for a lot of people. One of my good friends loves adolescent medicine, but feels it makes more sense to join a big group general peds practice and tell all his partners that he’ll take all the teens they want to give him (and there are many, many general pediatricians who will be more than happy to take him up on that offer so they can focus on the little kids and babies) rather than spend 3 years just to add some extra certificates to his wall - he’ll get to do the same thing he wants either way.</p>

<p>There are also growing numbers of combined programs in other residency fields - another friend is in a combined general surgery residency/vascular surgery fellowship. But the progress in this area is slow.</p>

<p>While the authors are probably right that there’s unlikely to be a significant decrease in quality with shorter training, I think a major component that will make people reluctant to really push for systematic change is that there’s a very significant number of people who need the time and exposure to really determine their ultimate career path. There would have to be ways to allow people to shift between the accelerated path and the standard track once they solidified their decision (or vice versa). For the number of people who could realistically cut out that extra 4 years they talk about, there are probably orders of magnitude more who need every last second to make a decision that’s right for them. </p>

<p>As a personal example, I could have succeeded with taking a year out of undergrad (though I would never trade my undergrad experience for anything and encourage everyone to take a full 4 years), and likely done okay with a condensed pre-clinical set up (it’s not like my grades were that great anyways so was the extra time really that helpful?). As far as residency goes, I’d be one of those ones who would have benefitted from an accelerated path to fellowship, because I knew which one I wanted, but that’s only because I had exposure to it as a medical student. And it’s only because I was exposed to the PICU in August of my 4th year that I would have been prepared to apply to an accelerated track for residency. If my electives had been in a different order…it might have been March and well out of my hands to have taken advantage of the system - unless there was a way to switch back and forth.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, I have friends in residency who are still trying to decide what they want to do, what type of fellowship they want to apply for. In peds, neonatology, heme/onc, GI, ID, Endocrine, and Pulmonology are all applied for starting in January of the 2nd year (Critical Care, Emergency Med, Development, and Rheumatology are July of 3rd year), and for many people, there’s simply not enough exposure to the fields that early to decide that yes, this is my career choice. The fellowship match for Internal Medicine was just moved from Spring of 2nd year to Summer of 3rd year for this exact reason. So many people are split between two fields or in some cases more. The corrollary though is how do you let people who do figure out their decision in say September of their 2nd year benefit from the accelerated path without throwing their schedule and clinical responsibilities in to chaos? For the medicine and pediatrics programs, do we begin to accept that programs simply won’t produce a % of their residents as board certified generalists? </p>

<p>Anyways, it’s interesting, and certainly a work in progress.</p>

<p>It’s funny that there’s all this talk of shortening residency, while in my field of training, there’s talk of lengthening the training period. I can’t tell you the number of attending surgeons who’ve bemoaned to me the advent of hours restrictions and feel that an increase in the duration of residency is the only way to ensure that chief residents are adequately prepared to be attendings.</p>

<p>Dumb question but what is the difference between an attending and a regular doctor who has finished residency?</p>

<p>What is a typical salary for a first year resident, are you able to live on it and pay off any of your debt?</p>

<p>An attending is someone who finished residency.</p>

<p>Typical salary is in the 45k-55k range depending on what area you will live in (Alabama vs. NYC).</p>

<p>Sound be enough to live on. Won’t be able to pay off much debt. In fact, if you sign up for income-based repayment based on a 50k salary and a 160k debt, it will estimate that you will be able to pay ~$500/month.</p>

<p>Bumping the thread. Any updates, NCG? How is it going?</p>

<p>About to leave on vacation for 3 weeks. Orientation starts pretty soon after I come back and my first day of work is June 27th. It feels very much like the end of something (med school) but the beginning of the next phase of my life.</p>

<p>Do you need to move quite a distance like shades_children did? Or, there is no such hassle for you. (I think it is lucky if one happens to go to a med school in a big city. This is because there are so many hospitals there. With some luck, the place for residency could be in the same city because there are so many residency programs in the city.)</p>

<p>Do most residents need a car? Is it likely a resident may need to go to multiple hospitals within a year? We are wondering when DS definitely needs a car. MS3? We are confident that he could drive in our hometown. Whether he will be experienced or skillful enough to drive in a snowy or icy region is a big question. (We ourselves do not have such an experience.) Maybe time to look at a 4WD car?</p>

<p>mcat2,
I do not know answers to most of your questions, but definitely “look at a 4WD car?”
When D. has started driving (few days after her 16th B-day) we made sure that she has 4WD car. They still have to have experience and unfortunately sometime it is not enough, but with 4WD car, at least, it is easier. Do not want to scare you but my older one had significant accident because of sslippery condition and he is the best driver out of all of us in the family. He currently has 4WD (or All WD, notsure abot diff.).<br>
My D. is currently in one of the most “snowy” cities but she cn walk to her Med. School, she knows not to drive (she has a car) in bad snow and in addition, past winter was vey mild, we were so happy for her and all California kids in her class.</p>

<p>My prelim year is in the same city as my med school. But, I will have to move for the start of my radiology residency next year. </p>

<p>Most residents probably do have a car, particularly if they live in a drivable city. It’s just more convenient. I personally have to do rotations at the pediatric hospital as well as a couple of community hospitals in addition to the main hospital as part of my radiology residency so I will definitely have to drive.</p>

<p>On the other hand, I have a number of classmates who are selling their cars before they move for residency because they’re in cities where they won’t need them or it’d be too expensive to keep them. Where I’m going to be living would be extremely difficult to manage without a car, so I’m definitely keeping mine.</p>

<p>As far as 4WD and things like that, there’s really no way of knowing whether you need to start considering that. Weather was definitely something that I thought about when interviewing. I don’t think it changed where I ranked programs, but residents don’t get snow days. So I definitely looked at the availability of public transportation or housing that was close enough to the hospital to walk if I absolutely had to.</p>

<p>Moving sucks!</p>

<p>Just back from a trip to my new city to look for apartments…so stressful. I’m moving to a city where public transit is plausible, but this the first time I’ve been in such a city and it’s going to be tough to give up my car.</p>

<p>As for the AWD/4WD thing…as a born and bred northerner, I’ll be honest - I find it far easier to stay in control with 2WD - it comes down to physics and having to think about how only 2 wheels are providing power as opposed to 4. Further, it keeps you humble which is an extremely important thing, especially when you have limited experience…</p>

<p>…well, I kind of do not think, I just push the pedal and hold it down and car does the rest. I agree that front-wheel drive is OK, but I am the only one in my family who have 2WD. Thank goodness, the others have better chances of not getting stuck in a snow as I have right on my own driveway sometime, 2 wheels seem not to be enough to get out. I have to admit that I am a terrible driver. I always have a little shovel in a car to dig it up. But the last time I could not help it even with the shovel.</p>

<p>I once heard that although AWD may help the car start moving, it can not help the car stopping. I wonder whether there is some truth in it.</p>

<p>If somebody can invent a tire that will automatically put on the snow chain by pushing a button on the dash board, it may be even more effective than AWD. (Am I dreaming? As a southerner, what would I know?!) The only problem we have here is flooding whenever there is heavy rain. When there is only a little bit of snow/icy condition, there will be well too many accidents. The city officials try to pursuade everybody to not go out because most people here are very inexperienced in driving in that kind of road condition.</p>

<p>BRM, BDM once said that, any person in this career path needs to accept a life style of perpetually being on the move when they are young. I think he even used the words “constantly being layoff every year or so” as they need to leave from one working place and go to the next working place constantly, while they are young.</p>

<p>It makes me shivering by just thinking of finding/renting an apartment in a big city (so expensive.) I guess it will be fine once you have settled down.</p>