@katliamom I don’t have a specific link but when you look at starting salary versus mid career salaries, the difference between the two is higher among other similarly ranked colleges. NEU’s starting salary tends to be higher but mid salary tends toward the average. I saw it about a year ago.
Where did you see it?
I believe on payscale. NEU’s rank is higher for starting salary than mid-career salary. I don’t know how accurate the data is and it does get skewed by schools like Colorado School of Mines etc, but I think it does show a general NEU trend.
W&M prepares students very well. It is consistently rated as one of the best undergraduate schools in the country. W&M seniors find jobs in every field imaginable.
I don’t think it is worth paying more money to go to Northeastern (though it is a very good school). What does a coop bring to the table that an internship while at W&M would not bring?
Disclaimer: I am a W&M alum.
“What does a coop bring to the table that an internship while at W&M would not bring?” - I benefited from my two engineering summer internships 30 years ago. However, I’d have to say that three 6-month co-ops would be more valuable to the student andto the company. It just gives more time do meaningful work after theinitial training period.
I’m just answering the question… not saying NEU is the right answer for this student. W&M may be the better choice here, especially if more affordable.
when do you go to class if you take three coops that are each 6 months long? How long does it take to graduate?
I didn’t mean for that question to come off as rude, so I apologize if it did! I really just meant that the OP should weigh a coop vs an internship, and 1. what the differences are, and 2. if those positives/negatives outweigh any other issues that are being considered.
You take classes in summer sessions after/before co-op. You can do 3 co-ops and graduate in 5 years, with 4 total years of classes/tuition just like any other college. You can also do 2 in 4 years, 1 in 4 years, and many other options. Like 3 in 4.5 years is possible if you have AP credit. It’s very flexible to what you choose, but the constant is 6 months of full time work on each co-op.
Positives:
6 months full time work vs summer internships or part time internships
Flexibility
Experience
Connections (50% of NEU grads get full time job offers from co-ops)
Co-op’s and professional development being built into the culture
Negatives:
No objective ones I can think of (feel free to add any)
Depends on Person (could be classified as either):
One summer home (freshman year)
Could spend a semester or two more in college
Basically, if the depends category items aren’t negatives for you, the co-op program is a big plus. If those two are negatives, then maybe it isn’t as good of a fit though the positives do still hold. So I think that co-op brings a lot to the table that most schools don’t. It’s not for all, but if you want to focus professionally while still getting a very good education, NEU is the place.
“just being thrown into the deep end with just her diploma to keep her afloat.” That’s being very overdramatic, don’t you think? Will she never get a summer job? Will she do no networking or resume building at W&M? Is it impossible to obtain a co-op from William and Mary? NO, IT IS NOT. NEU does not have a monopoly on co-ops, however much it wants you to think it does have one.
At NEU she’ll be “thrown into the deep” via co-op a little sooner, but she won’t actually get settled somewhere for the long haul until a year or two after 2019. At W&M she’ll graduate in 2019 and get a job, like thousands of other college graduates all over the country. By about age 24 or so, their experience will even out. A co-op at 19 or 20 will not put you way ahead of someone working at 22 or 23 full time in a job they were hired to stay in.
If I were you I’d guide her toward W&M, if only to stay in the area, closer to home, with the support that offers, and a the opportunities that come with that–perhaps eventually a permanent job in VA or DC where you could see her easily. Plus, W&M is just plain a better school. Sorry, but it is.
Now, if she really likes the idea of alternating school with work life, NEU might be a great place for her. But she can also do that at William and Mary. They do let you take a semester/year off, you know.
Both are fine schools…for different reasons.
Does your daughter want to live in Boston or Williamsburg for four years? That might be a consideration.
We took our kid to see William and Mary. She agreed it was an excellent school, but the thought of living in Williamsburg was just not her thing. She wanted an urban campus…so she went to a school in a city.
Also, there is a lot to be said for NEU’s co-op program, for which they are well known.
From a W&M mom: One the the great things there is the supportive professors and many research opportunities on campus which provide experience for future work or grad school. The geographical environments of the two schools are very different, though. Your daughter might “fit” better in one or the other, but won’t go wrong with either one.
Parent of a NEU student here. I think both schools are excellent academically, but very different. The question shouldn’t be which is a better school, but which is better for this student. One advantage of 3 coops is it gives the student 3 different (if they choose) work environments - a chance to learn about what they might like to do and what they don’t like. NEU also has tremendous international experience opportunities. My daughter is an engineering major, which is often a difficult major to fit in international study. She has done a summer study abroad, a full semester abroad, and is now on an international coop.
I did find with coop my daughter was employed in the summer when often her friends at other schools were having trouble finding relevant internship programs - especially early, such as after sophomore year. There are also research opportunities at NEU - she worked in a lab as a freshman and it turned into summer (paid) work.
Other differences - the locations - Boston is a big city - that’s not for everyone, but many kids really love it. Coop puts a lot of change into their schedules - often they are alternating a semester of classes with a semester of work. Many kids say they like this change - you get tired of classes, time for coop. Tired of work - time for classes. For others it may not be a good fit.
W&M is definitely a prettier, more traditional campus. If that’s what she wants, she may not be as happy at NEU.
They are very different experiences. Both are great - which is right for your daughter?
Back to the coop vs. intern discussion… I attended Virginia Tech, which also has a strong coop program. I worked 6 mo of the year (summer and fall) for 3 years and one summer for a total of 7 quarters of work. This extended my graduation date by 1 year, but I was able to make enough money to come away without debt. My grades were not stellar, but the experience was valued by may employers during my senior year resulting in multiple job offers prior to graduation. Intern positions are good, but generally short term and frequently unpaid. A coop assignment gives you and an employer to invest some serious time in each other. The coop position is a real job, so you come out of the gate with much more experience than your peers. I had several friends who were coops, all had jobs before graduation.
of course, tons of people that do not do coops around the country (and at W&M) also graduate with jobs lined up and ready to go.
@soccerguy315
I don’t think anyone is arguing that. I think the argument is that co-ops lead to more assurance of having a job lined up, and if that is the primary reason you are attending school, co-op is a great advantage. It isn’t required, but that level of advantage is pretty significant in the current job market.
The reason co-op’s are becoming more and more important is because 15 years ago, significantly fewer people went to college, and your leg up was your degree. Now, a degree isn’t always enough. It’s a reality that the current college generation is facing, and many to follow will as education increases (a good thing for society, it just means more competition in the job market).
This is also causing a clear split in the college search process: those focused towards academia and those focused professionally. The objectives of colleges/universities are changing.
I think that is the difference in this decision: More professionally focused, go NEU. More academically, go W&M. If you read most of the replies, that’s how they read. Both are amazing schools, but they are now aimed at two different types of students. It depends on which type OP consideres themselves closest to.
I am a huge advocate of co-ops in general and especially the NEU program… IF it is a good fit for the particular student. In this case, W&M may be the better choice.
It’s really funny, because when I was making my decision for colleges it came down to those exact two schools. Completely different, I know, but they both had various qualities that appealed to me. I have visited both at least twice and have friends at each. To me, it really depends on what your student wants out of a college experience more. It also depends on possibly what she wants to go into. A co-op from Northeastern may be much more beneficial in some more pre-professional fields (business, compsci), but W&M may have better alumni or a stronger department in an area that NEU might lack (ex: IR, government)
Northeastern has the co-op thing, which appeals to many students and provides great job experiences for a resume, but what katliamom points out is true as well. To some, it may be sacrificing part of the college experience by having them work part time and also having your friends coming in and out of your life as they go complete their own co-ops. Due to its preprofessional nature, there may be less flexibility in major changes because you declare as you go in compared to W&M where you don’t declare until you reached a certain amount of credits. Boston is also an awesome city to explore, there are many things to do for young people, but socially speaking it might be more difficult for someone strapped for cash to delve into all that Boston has to offer. The more competitive co-ops do pay, which may help defray the costs, and compared to W&M Northeastern seems to have a more global perspective by having alumni do things all over the country. Co-op is definitely a highlight of the Northeastern experience. In terms of food and facilities, Northeastern just has so many different options, but W&M has more “green space.”
W&M is a public school that really highlights small class sizes and interaction with professors. There is also the component of research that you can really delve into it if you want to. I am only in my first year here, but this semester all my class sizes have been 35 students or less. I am also doing a geocoding internship over the summer through W&M, so co-ops are not the only way to get jobs and valuable work experience. Compared to Boston, Williamsburg is much more of a quaint town but still many tourists and outside visitors, but not for someone who really desires a city. The best part is the community because many people are on campus and there is plenty to do on that front. It has a interdisciplinary liberal arts curriculum, which causes students to take courses in many different subjects, compared to Northeastern which emphasizes the strong focus in developing one subject area.
Obviously I am biased towards W&M, but I strongly believe that both are amazing schools and you can’t go wrong with either. Go take a visit to both and let us know what you decide.
I’d go with W&M all the way. 100%
D is having something like this choice to, Amherst or NEU. Also night and day - small rural LAC, big city U with co-op. I am enjoying the discussion.
Do you have stats to back this up this argument? Just curious. I wouldn’t be surprised if more W&M students went to grad school quickly after undergrad than Northeastern students, which in turn would mean more Northeastern students would have jobs.
I’m sure that students with co-ops do better getting their first jobs than students without co-ops or internships. I am less convinced that students with co-ops do better than students with internships.
For the record, I work directly with at least 2 people that got into their jobs through co-ops from Northeastern. I also work directly with multiple W&M alums. Field: government / IR
@soccerguy315
I have NEU based stats about co-ops and rankings about career services (both stats already included in this thread I think) but I don’t think anyone has looked at co-ops compared to internships specifically for a few reasons:
- As mentioned before, the difference hasn't mattered or appeared to mattered until recently when the landscape of the workforce changed and required a better leg up for assurance of employment.
- I'm not sure who would look at those numbers. Who would conduct the study and would be able to get accurate data?
- Problems with accurate post-graduation employment numbers. This is a big part of #2 I think.
As far as post-grad employment, the best I found was 86% for W&M (2011), 91% for W&M business, 90% (2010) for NEU, and 93% for current NEU Business. Considering the growth of NEU and W&M’s upward employment trend mentioned in Source 1, I think those numbers are at least somewhat trustworthy and I would project that the gaps between each would be about the same today. If I am not mistaken, all of these numbers account for grad-school attendance and it is not counted against the employment rate.
So, it would look like NEU does offer slightly better job prospects as a school. That 90% number is brought into question in Source 3 slightly, as are all other employment numbers. The 86% I found was surprisingly hard to find. The 93% is on a NEU website so I wouldn’t say that’s 100% either. Basically, there’s no surefire data in the area for many other reasons, and that’s a whole separate issue, as noted in my #3 above. But, assuming equal assurance of correctness in all sources, it seems NEU does have a slight edge.
I think Source 3, especially towards the end, makes some points I would agree with on internships versus co-ops. That would be something my argument would generally support.
Source 1: http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/7767/
Source 3: http://www.citylab.com/work/2012/09/could-co-ops-solve-our-college-grad-employment-crisis/3205/
Source 4: http://www.bloomberg.com/bschools/rankings/full_time_mba_profiles/williammary.html
Based on this, my experience, my research in the college selection process and admittedly some personal preference towards professional focus rather than academic (though I love academics and would stay in school forever if I could), I have become a big advocate for co-op programs. I have yet to see any statistical pattern suggesting that co-ops aren’t the best advantage for post-graduation employment, including when compared to internships. I myself have had two internships and have seen the exact problems with them: lack of specific job, low/no pay, less investment by the company. Co-ops allow companies to really invest, have a long-term job/project ready for you, and you are compensated with significantly better pay.