My daughter is deciding between Northeastern University and William & Mary. She qualifies for in-state tuition at W&M and has been offered a scholarship from NEU ($10k/year). We visited NEU on Sunday, March 29 and will be visiting W&M on Saturday, April 11.
As different as the two schools may be, she loves them both and can picture herself attending either institution, but here’s where her dilemma truly lies:
My daughter is very familiar with W&M. She has visited W&M’s campus twice (once as a sophomore in high school, once as a junior) and has a number of good friends who are currently students there. On the other hand, my daughter applied to NEU on a bit of a whim (risky, I know) and last Sunday was her first time seeing the campus. She’s still quite unfamiliar with the school (as am I), so I was wondering if someone could answer some of our lingering questions about the school, to give her more clarity as to what life at NEU is really like.
Academics
How easy is it to focus on academics at NEU? Given the size of the student body and location, there are many potential distractions. My daughter really wants to learn as much as she can academically in college.
The Reality of Co-op
Where are students on co-op typically employed? I felt like most of the co-op locations that were mentioned during welcome day were just the standouts.
What kind of jobs do students typically get through co-op? Everyone we talked to on welcome day never went into any specifics on what they did whilst on co-op. They just described their jobs as "entry-level work" and "not like an internship where you're hauling coffee." That may be true, but at the same time, are the jobs that you get through co-op as professional as they seem?
How competitive can it be to land co-op positions?
The Campus
Is space ever an issue on campus? I was a little concerned with the size of some of the buildings on campus -- namely common spaces (i.e. Snell Library) -- in proportion to the size of NEU's student body. Can NEU's facilities, like the library, really accommodate the size of its student body? Or will my daughter have to fight for a study spot in the library during midterms/finals week?
Any comments and suggestions are welcome and much appreciated.
What is your out of pocket for both schools and can you afford it?
What does your d want to study?
How interested will she be in actually doing a Co-op, how proactive will she be in getting one, vs. a more traditional academic calendar for 8 semesters in a row?
First, let me start off saying, that Northeastern is ALL ABOUT the coop experience. The success and tradition of the coop program should be the motivating reason to attend Northeastern. So unless your daughter is already inclined more professionally (as opposed to academically) then NEU may not be for her. I would even go further and say that the humanities-oriented student who’s after a primarily intellectually-challenging academic experience should look elsewhere than NEU.
Not because there aren’t purely academically focused students there, but because they’re not the majority. The majority is pre-professional in orientation, typically majoring in business, engineering, sciences (with med/nursing/PT etc in mind.)
Co-op affects the campus culture as well. Starting in the second semester of their sophomore year, a large percentage of students disappear off campus for months on end. (Which also means, fewer students competing for school facilities – I never heard of my daughter having problems in that arena, OP.) Most can still take part in campus events (and can still live on campus) – but not during their working hours! My daughter recalled being surprised seeing a member of the women’s squash team go to practice wearing a little business suit: she’d come straight from her coop banking job.
The coop opportunities are pretty much as amazing as they sound. My daughter, a science student, worked at a Harvard cancer research lab for all of her coops. Her position started as that of a lab assistant, and gradually grew in responsibilities. She left NEU with solid work experience, recommendations from some pretty impressive specialists, and co-author credit on a professional publication. She had friends who did their coops with big-name companies. A business major roommate did her first co-op in Boston, but her second co-op was in the same company’s Paris office and the third in the Shanghai branch.
Obviously, the more markeatable your skills, the easier it is to get a good, challenging coop. I personally saw nothing wrong with doing entry-level work for a co-op kid who’s only a sophomore in college. It’s a good introduction to the realities of working. Those who stayed in the same company for all their coops (which is not unusual) were often offered management-level positions right out of college. In other words, the coop helped them vault past the entry-level position. That said, grades and major matter in getting those great coops, and there is something that was laughingly referred to as the no-op (i.e., ending up working in retail or in an unpaid coop unlikely to advance you professionally) for students whose resumes remained weak. Even getting a referral from the school to a good coop can be competitive: if an advisor has to choose sending one of 2 students to a particular company for a coop interview, he/she will pick the one with better grades and qualifications. It’s sort of like real life that way
I think NEU is an excellent school – for the right student. I would have hated it; my daughter thrived there.
Most students are very focused. As @katliamom mentioned, co-op is a huge part of the culture and students focus time towards that and other professional related things, but it doesn’t pull away from academics. If anything I would say NEU kids would be more academically focused because they have to focus on both and this raises their overall focus and awareness of what they need to do.
Co-op really is the real deal. My freshman year intro class TA had interviews at Amazon, Google, and eventually took his final co-op at Facebook (CS). Whatever your field is, the positions are true work. Companies are paying you, this isn’t an internship where the company doesn’t mind if they don’t get value out of you. Virtually all co-ops are paid excluding some of the arts. Some are paid incredibly well, specifically CS and business.
It’s not a cakewalk, but there are enough jobs to go around. You should expect to get better jobs in your second and third co-ops.
I haven’t had any issues with space. Curry and Snell can get a bit packed at times but if you want to work at either there is always room.
Overall I highly recommend NEU but agree with katliamom, it’s not for pure academics if that is what your daughter is looking for.
If you have any more questions for a student, ask away!
I agree with @PengPhils and @Katiamom but I would point out that a couple of years ago the Northeastern Alumni Magazine profiled an alumnus who was a Ph.D. candidate in philosophy at Princeton University. So anything is possible.
I’d go to W&M in a heartbeat. I think it is an academically superior school and it sounds like it will be less expensive. I know many like Northeastern’s coop program, but my friend’s kid didn’t have great luck getting meaningful work experience (he ended up working for the school twice).
Wow, such different school, so different that I can’t see one person in a dilemma about the choice. It seems like you’d be easily able to see where you would fit better.
I have only one kid who would have enjoyed the way NEU works. I’ve wished that he’d gone there, sort of, as he would have likely now be well into finding a job, even a career, but then he was not accepted for the first term, and he decided he wanted a more traditional school anyways.
It all comes down to what atmosphere your DD prefers and what she wants to study.
Don’t know much about W&M but I do know one kid who did great there and just recently started working at NSA after graduation.
I do know tons about NEU where my daughter goes:
I think focusing on academics depends on the student - there is definitely every opportunity to focus and succeed academically but of course you have to work hard (as you would at any college I hope). The city is wonderful but I would not consider it a distraction. My daughter has used it to aid her academics - had projects where she had to visit the MFA, stuff like that
there is no typical co-op - co-ops are employed all over the world in every type of company from small start-up to working for the school to working for the tech giants to working for the research giants to working in Boston’s version of wall street.
Most first co-ops are entry level - my daughter has had friends who felt that the start of their first co-op was lots of grunt work (making copies, checking stuff, etc.) but most of them progressed to more challenging work as their co-op went on. You are getting true experience and also just getting the value of learning how to work (there is value to getting to learn how to do work stuff - commuting, eating lunch, calling in sick, answering the phone in an office, meeting people at different levels etc.) I joked that during my daughter’s first 6 month co-op she got to experience everything - jury duty, her boss retiring, meeting with vendors, doing an office publicity photo shoot, attending office parties, etc.
Co-ops are competitive - it is like the real world - you will be judged on your resume, interview, appearance, etc. I think this is actually a good thing.
My daughter does complain that during finals the library is crowded and that Curry is packed during lunch all the time. When the weather is nice she enjoys the outside spaces to study. She is very adaptable and studies wherever she finds a space, if you are creative you should be fine. The library is open 24/7 and they do have a lot of printers and computers. Most dorms have some quiet spaces in common areas.
Another vote for W&M. I think it is the better school academically and reputation-wise (although I understand that Northeastern is on the rise). Plus it will be cheaper. Both of my kids at traditional 4 year colleges were able to get summer internships so they did get good work experience without spending an extra year doing a coop program.
Our son is also deciding between both of these schools. He visited NEU on 3/28 and visiting W&M on April 11. Thank you to the parent initiating the post and to all who have replied!
William and Mary will offer more rigorous academics, in a more traditional, prestigious setting. I would recommend W & M over Northeastern even if it were more expensive; in this case, it sounds as if it would be less expensive. The only reason I’d recommend Northeastern over W & M is if your child is just dying to get some real-world work experience as quickly as possible, in which case the co-op structure at Northeastern would make more sense.
Some students are “doers” by nature, some are more interested in being studious, some blend the two more than others. I have known young adults who thrived at Northeastern. They loved the quick assess to applying their studies and entering a generally urban workforce. They had the temperament required to hustle a bit to procure their desired coop. The students I know graduated job in hand, frequently from one of their paid coop jobs.
I have also known students whose passions laid with smaller classroom experiences, easier access to professors and a bit of an academic sanctuary on campus. They were content to pursue internships outside of their colleges’ requirements, big on “academia”.
Yes, the above is over-simplified and generalized, but it may help to kick it around. A city allows easier access to some types of experiences; there is a reason Boston is a draw to college students. This may not be your student’s priority. The only negative I have heard from the Northeastern students I know well was the challenge of navigating the bureaucracies. No way of knowing how representative that is. The school’s selectivity seems to have increased rapidly. William and Mary, well if that fits for your student, it is highly acclaimed and an amazing opportunity.
I went to Northeastern and also considered LAC’s. I loved the coop and think that Northeastern does give you a great advantage, not just in building your resume but in letting you kind of test drive your career options. Better if you figure out you can’t see yourself working in accounting in your first coop with two years of college than in your first job. I did think that in some classes I might have preferred a liberal arts environment for the small size and level of discussion and engagement. NU is very pre-professional. I also wasn’t super tied to the campus (although some people are). When you’re cooping, you’re essentially commuting to work every day, so if you live off campus, you can spend months without being on campus.
A big thank you to everyone who has replied so far. Your responses have been extremely helpful to both my daughter and me.
Currently, my daughter is planning on majoring in economics with an emphasis on mathematics and is heavily considering a career in business analytics. However, she has a strong interest in chemistry as well (she’s taken introductory chemistry and AP chemistry and is currently taking organic chemistry) and hasn’t completely ruled out the possibility of becoming a pharmacist/doctor yet.
Now, a couple of questions for all of the W&M parents out there:
How competitive are W&M graduates in the job market upon graduation?
My daughter’s biggest draw to NEU is the co-op program and how it primes its students for working in the professional world. She wants to feel well-prepared for life beyond academia after finishing her undergraduate education, rather than just being thrown into the deep end with just her diploma to keep her afloat. With that being said, how well do you think that W&M prepares its undergraduates for working in the professional world?
I think NEU has the rep of giving kids a better chance at getting a job right out of college. That is what they are geared to do. W&M is not so set up, as it does emphasize the liberal arts and the traditional college experience over career prep.
There are very few schools with coop programs. There are tons of schools with a traditional four year program and the vast majority of students seem to do fine in terms of getting jobs and moving into the working world. There are summer internships, work-study, internships during the school year etc. to help students prepare for their future. And while coops may help get that first job, I think long term having a degree and the preparation from the better recognized, more rigorous school will serve your child well over the long term.
This may be true for now, but NEU is only 9 spots behind W&M on US News. And it has gained each year for the past decade. By the time OP graduates I wouldn’t bet everything on W&M being considered the better recognised or more rigorous college.
Yes, one can gen work experience at any colleges. In fact, many college do have co-op programs: they just aren’t very big. The difference at NEU is the size and focus of the co-op program. Every student is assigned a co-op advisor and you take a co-op preparation class before your first co-op. You won’t get that at a school without a co-op emphasis, even if you do seek and get the internship opportunities.
Also work-study is nowhere near co-op, and even internships are not a full six months with full time hours, in or out of the school year.
I do think there is something to be said about NEU and mid-career salary. NEU grads historically do historically have less gain from their starting salaries. First, I think growing prestige will help. Historically, I don’t think it is just prestige though. Companies pay for experience, and you have more to gain when you enter the workforce without it.
