Northwestern or Wesleyan (3+2 for engineering)??

College Search & Selection
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<p>I just got back from the admitted students days for each of the schools - I love each for completely different reasons! *First, a bit about myself:</p>

<p>I am a total math nerd (science too of course), but can't see myself pursuing hard math, it would drive me nuts. I have always enjoyed getting my hands dirty and love being faced with problems and such, so I really think that engineering is the thing for me. I am also a professional live/session rock drummer in San Diego and need to be in a community where I can expand my musical horizons along with academic education (I can really see me applying my musical passion and creativity to engineering). Here's how I feel about the schools:</p>

<p>Northwestern:
(pros)
Lines up with my academic goals PERFECTLY. I love the facilities and teaching staff and co-op/research/internship opportunities and support. My extensive AP/college credit could even allow me to get a masters or do the co-op in 4 years (perhaps). I also love the hands-on teaching approach (engineering 1st) and I met a couple other pre-frosh who I got along with very well. The student project teams would be a great outlet for my creativity and look great for jobs/grad schools. <em>Of course, the location outside of Chicago is great for music.</em></p>

<p>(cons)
It's larger than I'd like. I don't like the campus as much as Wes. Social life is VERY Greek based and I don't see myself fitting in quite as well (I'm not really one to party/drink). Not as many on-campus musicians/bands (for rock).*</p>

<p>Wesleyan:
(pros)
AMAZING campus! I love the size and really prefer the feel to Northwestern. Immediately upon getting there, I befriended a TON of other students and actually made some very good friends (also possible room mates) in the 5 days I spent there. People here are much more weird and quirky than Northwestern students - a plus - and the single main dining hall centralizes the campus and brings people together. The 3-2 program would let me get my engineering education while experiencing this amazing place. Although the location doesn't cater to outside gigs or big venues, the on-campus music community is extremely vibrant.*</p>

<p>(cons)
I would only get 3 years here. For these three years, I would not have the same resources that I would at Northwestern (Ford design center, etc). As a prospective mechanical engineering major, Wes's small machine shop simply doesn't give me what I need like Northwestern. I'm not sure how much I could catch up in 2 years at Columbia or Caltech. I've been kicking my ass all through high school to get into the best school I can to study whatever I'm passionate about, and now that I've found passion in engineering, I don't want to sacrifice all of that hard work just to have more fun.*</p>

<p>I would love to hear any thoughts you have, I'm so torn! <em>Would grad schools or employers prefer a BA in physics from Wes + a BS in engineering from Caltech over a BS from Northwestern? Should I even think about that? *I'm totally open to changing majors/focus's, but I will NOT be pursuing a liberal arts major in any case.</em></p>

<p>Thanks SO much!!!!</p>

2

<p>I think that very few students actually end up doing 3+2 programs. If you want to study engineering, I think it is better to go to a school that actually offers engineering. If you want to spend a 5th year in college, get an MS in engineering.</p>

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<p>^Sacchi is true. Many students who express their interest in 3-2 Engineering program never complete it. Better goto a college with engineering if you want a B.S in Engineering. Plus, 3-2 engineering program doesn’t guarantee you a place at any of those partner engineering schools.
Goto Northwestern. Don’t think about anything else if you are sure that engineering is the thing you want to do.</p>

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<p>Thank both of you so much for your opinions. I am just going to play devil’s advocate for a minute here, but hear me out…</p>

<p><em>My people</em> are definitely at Wesleyan. I have had an incredibly hard time finding many close friends in high school and have lived a largely segregated life between academics and music (with different friends for each). I have NEVER bonded so strongly with people after just a few days as I did at Wes.</p>

<p>I am also extremely motivated and if I wanted to follow through with the 3-2 program, it would happen. I wouldn’t restrict myself from changing my mind (if I found my passion elsewhere, my life would be much easier), but if I want to be an engineer, nothing will stop me. I met 3 or 4 students who were on track to do it at Wes and I have no doubt that there are more. I am even looking into designing my own engineering major at Wes, taking summer classes elsewhere or even getting engineering professors on campus because I know of enough students that would be interested. </p>

<p>That being said, I did meet some cool people at Northwestern and my experience may have been influenced by the fact that I stayed on campus, in a frat. Wesleyan’s “Wesfest” was also very cleverly organized to put pre-frosh together and almost have us convince each other to go…</p>

<p>Do you still feel the same?</p>

5

<p>Only you can decide where you will fit best.</p>

<p>That said, no, I don’t change my advice. Northwestern is a big enough school that you should be able to find “your people” there, especially if you start there as a freshman.</p>

<p>Imagine if you went to Wes and found a close social circle there. Would you really want to leave them after 3 years, and have to go find a new circle at another school your last two years, among people who have already been together for two years? </p>

<p>I suggest that you ask Wes for numbers on how many students have actually done the 3/2 program and which schools they transferred to. Perhaps they would even give you names of students who have transferred to contact to ask about their experience. </p>

<p>In terms of future grad schools/employers: For engineering grad school admissions, it is probably better to go 4-yrs to engineering school. I’ve heard from engineering professors that they like to see undergrads take a few grad level classes, and that is probably more achievable in a 4-yr program than with only 2-yrs in engineering school. For graduate school in business, there wouldn’t be much difference between the two, with perhaps a slight advantage to the 3/2 program. </p>

<p>For future employers, it is hard to know which would be better. I personally hire mostly MS/PhD engineers not BS, but would rather see more depth in engineering, with some grad level classes, which would be hard to fit into 2-yrs at engineering school, because of chains of pre-reqs.</p>

<p>Good luck with whatever you decide.</p>

6

<p>You don’t need to be influenced by the frat scene at NU if you don’t want to. One-third of the campus is Greek - which means that 2/3 isn’t. (I may be slightly off, but the concept is the same.) You’ve got music people and theater people and creative types and you’ve got all of Chicago in terms of a music scene. </p>

<p>Good luck to you!</p>

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<p>OTOH, I’ve also heard it said that 3 years is the perfect time to leave a LAC because you haven’t exhausted all the opportunities (social and otherwise) and how nice it is to have a ready-made set of goals in place while everyone else is skating through senior year.</p>

<p>In fact, we can invert the situation by asking, what happens if the OP changes his mind about engineering completely? He has two years to go at Northwestern, a university they’ve essentially compromised on a lot of things to attend simply because of their intended major.</p>

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<p>If that happens and he decides after 2 years he doesn’t want engineering – what is there he can’t study at NU that he could at Wes? Are there specific depts where Wes has strength vs NU?</p>

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<p>I’d throw the 3+2 program out of the window if I were you. What you should be comparing is NU PLUS Engineering vs Wes MINUS Engineering. 3+2 program is bad because:</p>

<ol>
<li>You’d graduate from Wes a year earlier than your class.</li>
<li>You’d go to another research university for 2 years as a junior when your new classmates already have their circles of friends. You may as well worry about the social life in this case more than when 1/3 of the class are Greeks.</li>
<li>Your choice would only be Columbia or Caltech.</li>
<li>You can fall behind at CalTech/Columbia due to lack of prior exposure to engineering fundamentals and at a disadvantage to compete for good GPA.</li>
<li>You’d be late in the game to find engineering research since professors at the engineering school know your peers but not you.</li>
<li>You curriculum would likely be more restricted because you need to somehow ful-fill both the BA requirements for Wes and the pre-reqs for the engineering school at the same time. You may need to give up things like study abroad to make it work.</li>
<li>Why get BA/BS when you can get BA/MS with just one extra semester (see below)?</li>
</ol>

<p>If you go to Wes and still want to do engineering, I’d recommend you to look into MS in engineering instead. There are many 1-yr MS programs that don’t require BS in the same field. It may take you 1.5 yr to finish because of some “remedial” classes but at least there’d be more people in the same boat and everyone starts at the same time. For just one more semester, you save yourself from all the negatives of 3+2 programs I mentioned. That’s why 3+2 programs are, to me, marketing gimmicks that LACs like using but very few people actually participate probably when they realize MS route makes more sense.</p>

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<p>I can’t thank you all enough for your help! I don’t have much else to say… all of your points make sense. At this point it’s just about weighing my personal growth in an atmosphere where I would love to grow into adulthood against my academic growth in pursuit of a practical career.</p>

<p>Please keep your comments coming!</p>

11

<p>Hi, I think Wesleyan will provide you with better professor intimacy, class size would be smaller. Thus, you will be better off academically? On the other hand, NW is better known because it is larger (i.e. more people knows it, so better reputation, you would be more proud of your self?)
Let me know, message me, I’m deciding between Bates and Wake Forest !</p>

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<p>“You curriculum would likely be more restricted because you need to somehow ful-fill both the BA requirements for Wes and the pre-reqs for the engineering school at the same time. You may need to give up things like study abroad to make it work.”</p>

<p>Very true.</p>

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<p>I think it’s reasonable to assume that a 3-2 engineering candidate won’t be spending junior year abroad.</p>

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<p>Study abroad doesn’t seem like much of an obstacle for me… If I really want to do it (at either school), there would be opportunities for me to attend another university and continue getting credit for classes. That being said, I have never REALLY wanted to go anywhere in particular, and I’m not very big on foreign languages… I’m not sure that I’d pursue study abroad at Northwestern either. It would be more likely that I’d do the co-op program and get a job outside the country (still not likely).</p>

15

<p>Also not a fan of a 3-2 program. But to the OP, who is obviously leaning towards it:</p>

<p>1) What are the minimum requirements to be admitted to Columbia engineering? (Caltech is not an option if you like Wes socially, and it not an option academically.)</p>

<p>2) What will you do if you are not accepted as a transfer to Columbia? (Sure, everyone truly believes that they will hard enough, but there are only a couple of slots for transfer, so you need to beat out your colleagues.)</p>

<p>3) Do you have the $$ for a fifth year of college? In addition to the then-$60k/yr, what about the opportunity cost to you personally? (Instead of spending another $60k for education, you could be earning $60k in a job. Net-net, a $120k swing.)</p>

<p>4) What about summer internships? (An Engineering student practically anywhere will have an easier time finding appropriate summer work over a liberal arts major; tech firms recruit from tech colleges.)</p>

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<p>have no idea what that sentence means.</p>

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</p>

<p>Physics majors have options, too.</p>

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<p>I am a bit biased but I will try to give my advice as fair as I can…</p>

<p>Go to Northwestern if you are absolutely sure you want to pursue mechanical engineering as a major/ career. They have a fantastic program that will certainly prepare you well. If you want to work in the engineering industry, go there for your BS/MS in engineering. The social environment at NU is much different than Wesleyan, but the academic advantages should outweigh that difference for you.</p>

<p>Go to Wesleyan if you are unsure if you want to do Mechanical engineering and/or would like a more well-rounded education. Try to think about your “fit.” Is there a reason you keep defending Wesleyan? Many people on this thread are jumping to their own conclusions about the 3-2 program without the proper research. If you fulfill all pre-engineering requirements at Wesleyan while maintaining a 3.0 GPA with favorable recommendations, you have GUARANTEED acceptance to Columbia’s engineering school. CalTech depends on the number of spaced available, so it is not guaranteed. About 150 students matriculate to Columbia as part of the 3-2 program. Yes, you will have to develop your own social circle, but it will be with people who are doing the same. </p>

<p>Here is a bit of my own opinion: A major problem with current students is their view about the role of college and advanced education. They see college as a necessary stepping stone to the job market. I personally believe this is untrue. College is about self exploration, independence, and most importantly becoming a more educated and perceptive person. From my visits to the two schools, I think Wesleyan University really “gets it.” They look beyond the job market advantages and focus on education and service to the global community. </p>

<p>To be honest, you really cant go wrong with either option. Pick NU if you’re career focused and enjoy football games and beer pong. Pick Wes if you want a more well-rounded education spent with students who enjoy slam poetry, fire dancing, and deep philosophical discussions. (Sorry for the stereotypes. Please don’t take offense.)</p>

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<p>@bpack428 I can’t believe you mentioned those exact stereotypes! While I was at NU I did in fact play beer pong (I don’t drink so a friend drank for me) and at Wesleyan I had the honor of seeing Buddy Wakefield perform slam poetry, I saw the fire dancing club’s show, and I had quite a few philosophical discussions.</p>

<p>I know I fit in better at Wes. </p>

<p>As far as my academic pursuits, I am not necessarily infatuated with Engineering, I have no real experience with it, it just seems like exactly what I want to do. Everything about it is very intriguing to me and my skills and aptitudes happen to line up exactly with what I need to excel in an engineering field. On top of that, I could really see myself applying an engineering degree to some work in the music sector - something that I would love to do. I am not tied down to mechanical engineering in particular, it just seems like it would be a lot of fun. But I absolutely cannot IMAGINE pursuing a major in the humanities, and I have never had profound interest in biology or chemistry. The only other <em>remote</em> options beyond engineering would be physics, math, stats, or econ.</p>

<p>Thanks so much for your response! Do you have any more advice?</p>

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<p>Ha! Humanities. I’m right there with you. Wesleyan is known as the science liberal arts college. They get, by far, the most funding for science research among other LACs. Wesleyan also has one of the best econ programs for smaller colleges. (They have a Nobel Peace Prize winner on staff.) You’re the only one who can make this decision. Just give Wesleyan’s academics a fair chance.</p>

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<p>Seems like you will enjoy Wesleyan more.</p>