<p>^^ so prove duke students have better extracurriculars...</p>
<p>in another thread.</p>
<p>Northwestern over.........</p>
<p>I am very glad; after having been gone for a while (for those of you who told me to go get a life, that's what I was doing? it looks as if my legacy is being carried on by others who haven't accumulated the ridiculous amount of gratutious ill-will that I somehow acquired with you Wildcats. </p>
<p>I apologize to everyone whom I offended by being right and not automatically bowing down to the Northwestern altar. Further, I understand that it may be very hard for you guys to accept that you are wrong, but please, don't whine, it is much more noble just to accept your defeat.</p>
<p>Thanks
Go Irish</p>
<p>I usually make it a policy not to respond to trolls, but:</p>
<p>Go nuts.</p>
<p>What's with all the TROLLS?</p>
<p>
[quote]
NU wins in almost everything else. im not an expert but i feel that you would have way better med school chances at NU than UIUC.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Actually..no. Quality of education aside, its generally easier to get into grad schools which take a less holistic approach in their admissions coming from an easier school. GPA is the number one admission criteria. I'd say its usually easier to do well in a state school as compared to a private school (especially one with very little grade inflation). If an aspiring doctor had to choose between MIT (a notorious grade deflater) and UIC, he'd probably choose the latter (assuming he'd done his research and was 100 percent sure he wanted to go into medicine). So yeah, your decision was a good one :-D</p>
<p>And please don't quote WSJ rankings. We all know their methodology is just inane.</p>
<p>
[quote]
but generally NU will be a safety to the average duke student. and i dont mean "safety" in the same way that i would for a state school. more like duke will be most people's reach, while NU is more easily attainable.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>not to be a troll, but i sort of agree. It doesn't say much about the quality of education/social life etc. of the college, but good students usually apply to duke as a reach, and NU as a match. I'd also say duke is as selective as dartmouth, brown, penn, dartmouth etc., while NU is around the Uchicago, Rice, cornell level.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Actually..no. Quality of education aside, its generally easier to get into grad schools which take a less holistic approach in their admissions coming from an easier school. GPA is the number one admission criteria. I'd say its usually easier to do well in a state school as compared to a private school (especially one with very little grade inflation). If an aspiring doctor had to choose between MIT (a notorious grade deflater) and UIC, he'd probably choose the latter (assuming he'd done his research and was 100 percent sure he wanted to go into medicine). So yeah, your decision was a good one :-D</p>
<p>And please don't quote WSJ rankings. We all know their methodology is just inane.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So you are trying to suggest that AdComs can't tell the difference between Cornell University and Cornell College? They adjust GPA for the school. More people from top colleges get into top colleges. Period.</p>
<p>
[quote]
So you are trying to suggest that AdComs can't tell the difference between Cornell University and Cornell College? They adjust GPA for the school.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm not 'trying to suggest' anything. I think I stated it very clearly. Most adcoms (at least med school adcoms) won't adjust for schools. Thats schools renowned for grade deflation have a lower rate of students getting into med school (e.g. 75 percent for mit) than schools known for grade inflation (brown- 94 percent). Furthermore, if you look at the details of students accepted to medical schools (<a href="http://www.mdapplicants.com/selectschool.php)%5B/url%5D">http://www.mdapplicants.com/selectschool.php)</a>, most accepted students come from state schools. Taking into account the higher caliber of students at top colleges, this makes your next statement,</p>
<p>
[quote]
More people from top colleges get into top colleges (sic). Period.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>defunct.</p>
<p>Most people go to state colleges there ammar.</p>
<p>Tell me what state school is placing people into med school 94 percent of the time as you quote for Brown.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Most people go to state colleges there ammar.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So? State colleges are more likely to accept students of a lower caliber. If a student who was capable of getting into an ivy league went to a state college, he'd probably be top of his class. This isn't a debate about acceptance rates, since state schools are obviously going to have more students who score lower on the mcat. Its about how capable person A can get into a good med school easier by attending a UIC as opposed to Northwestern. Notice again, that we're considering numbers, not percentages. A greater number of capable students from SOME state schools can get into med schools, as opposed to a greater number of capable students from SOME top schools. In other words, it don't matter what the name on your diploma says chum.</p>
<p>ammar - If they are taking the top 10% of top colleges and top 1% of state colleges(essentially what you just said) - they adjust for the school you went to.</p>
<p>Your last degree is all that matters, but they take a greater percentage of those from 'better' schools. This makes sense, and probably is how it should be(as those are generally better students). I'm not trying to say it is easier at one or the other, but that if both had a 3.7, the guy at the 'tougher' schools will get the spot.</p>
<p>But I think part of what ammarsfound was saying is that guy would likely get a higher GPA at UIC than he would at NU because there's a lot more competition at NU. Afterall, a guy that gets a C at our infamous orgo probably can get A or B elsewhere.</p>
<p>On certain colleges' websites (Haverford College, for one), it explicitly states on the health professions advising page that med schools are aware of Haverford's rigor and adjust for it.</p>
<p>"Your last degree is all that matters, but they take a greater percentage of those from 'better' schools"</p>
<p>Thats because, like i wrote earlier, a greater number of students at better schools are 'capable'. Since the dude who went to UIC was good enough to get into northwestern, we can assume that he would be as capable as the average northwestern student. Now, at a state school, with (generally) easier classes, less competition, he can easily stand out. This means a better gpa, more professors taking notice (hence better recommendations), and fewer loans to pay off once he graduates. </p>
<p>
[quote]
On certain colleges' websites (Haverford College, for one), it explicitly states on the health professions advising page that med schools are aware of Haverford's rigor and adjust for it.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>If they're making statements like that, i doubt they're being honest. </p>
<p>On MIT's premed website, the average gpa for students accepted to med schools is listed as 3.6. On the other hand, Duke, which is MUCH more grade inflated than mit sends students to med schools with an average gpa of 3.5. A 3.5 at MIT is like swimming across the atlantic in one go : nearly impossible unless you're a genius. A 3.5 at duke, while still very hard, is still possible with a fair amount of work.</p>
<p>College Kid, could you send the exact link to the page where haverford says med schools adjust for rigor?</p>
<p>"Many medical schools know Haverford and the quality of its premedical courses and Quaker community and will look at each student's whole application above and beyond the numbers." </p>
<p>This quote can be found here: <a href="http://www.haverford.edu/deptinfo/premedfaq.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.haverford.edu/deptinfo/premedfaq.htm</a></p>
<p>While this may not be very explicit, it definitely implies that medical schools care about where you did your undergraduate study.</p>
<p>In addition, this was taken from the Swarthmore website:</p>
<p>"Do medical schools make allowances for Swarthmore's rigor and lack of grade inflation?</p>
<p>Yes, many medical schools are aware of Swarthmore, and the excellence of its students and its academic program. They are often willing to consider our applicants with grades that are slightly lower than those of their typical admitted students." --taken from:<a href="http://www.swarthmore.edu/x8887.xml%5B/url%5D">http://www.swarthmore.edu/x8887.xml</a></p>
<p>
[quote]
While this may not be very explicit, it definitely implies that medical schools care about where you did your undergraduate study.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Doesn't this directly contradict what you said earlier?</p>
<p>
[quote]
On certain colleges' websites (Haverford College, for one), it explicitly states on the health professions advising page that med schools are aware of Haverford's rigor and adjust for it.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>On the other hand, the data i provided EXPLICITLY insists that ad coms don't adjust for different schools. </p>
<p>As for the quote you provided </p>
<p>
[quote]
"Many medical schools know Haverford and the quality of its premedical courses and Quaker community and will look at each student's whole application above and beyond the numbers."
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Its more likely a reference to the fact that med schools dont JUST care about gpas. They care about research experience, recommendations, personal statements etc. In no way does this quote suggest that they take into account an individuals undergrad institution. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Yes, many medical schools are aware of Swarthmore, and the excellence of its students and its academic program. They are often willing to consider our applicants with grades that are slightly lower than those of their typical admitted students.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Is there data to back that up? At best it sounds like conjecture. Even if it is true, i doubt if ad coms adjust sufficiently for rigor ('williing to accept students with slightly lower grades'). It also seems very unlikely that they would adjust for swarthmore and not MIT.</p>
<p>swarthmore's not any harder than any other top institution, in 1997 their average gpa was 3.24 and rising...</p>
<p>NU over:</p>
<p>NYU Stern
Notre Dame
Michigan
Lehigh
Carnegie Melon</p>
<p>NU over...</p>
<p>Carnegie Mellon
Penn State - Schreyer Honors College
BU
Pitt</p>