<p>Are the admissions standards the same for a theatre student as for other students? In other words, is it more difficult to get in as a theatre major? I do realize the program is capped at 100 students/year.</p>
<p>Does participation in the summer HS theatre program (Cherubs) really have any bearing on the undergrad admissions process?</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>My impression is that it’s harder for theatre students since they cap it, but I honestly don’t know what the stats are for each school. My own D, who is loving NU as a Freshman, didn’t participate in Cherubs (or any pre college program), but again I have no idea what the stats are. </p>
<p>I thought I’d be more helpful than this–sorry :-)</p>
<p>You should send a PM to MomCares. She has a daughter at Northwestern and is very knowledgable about the school.</p>
<p>Admission standards are the same for the all students applying if you mean that you need a good average in your classes and good test scores, well written essays, good and pertinent extracurriculars, etc. Only the admissions staff can answer any other questions concerning admissions.</p>
<p>As far as participation in pre-college summer programs, many (most?) do not from my knowledge. You are a package deal, there are plenty of ways to show interest in your desired potential major without spending on expensive summer programs.</p>
<p>Great response amtc! No parent here, unless they are in admissions, can answer questions about who gets in a particular college. My kids go to two different colleges and I would never even try to answer admissions questions because my experience would only be based on my own children and no one else. It also changes every year due to the candidate pools. Neither of my kids went to any summer programs either- although they did go to a performing arts school. Their high school didn’t cost thousands of dollars to attend either. I know many kids who were rejected from the colleges in which they went to their summer intensives.</p>
<p>I just thought maybe some one here might have asked this of an admission officer or at an info session.</p>
<p>NU’s acceptance rate is about 15% - is it generally different for prospective theatre students?</p>
<p>arw - are you wondering if the theatre acceptance rate is higher? There is no way it will be higher. Since they cap the program, and they are looking for various kinds of experience, even though they don’t audition, they are going to be very selective for the theatre majors. I’d guess the rate would be slighter lower than for general liberal arts majors.</p>
<p>NU, although a non-auditioned BA, has similar acceptance rate to very selective auditioned programs, and almost as low as Ivy League schools. That’s just how it is when you are looking at very selective schools, no matter what field you are in. </p>
<p>If a student has excellent academic stats and is confident about theatre experience - and no one here is going to say they haven’t done the right things theatre-wise because we don’t judge background or “talent” here - s/he should go ahead and apply to highly selective schools. And just like any kid who is applying to a highly selective school, s/he should have some alternative choices, including ideally some safeties, if the reach schools don’t work out.</p>
<p>I know you’re concerned about your kid, and we all sweat these kinds of questions, but usually it becomes obvious that all you can do is submit an app, do what you can, and wait for the answer. Stats help you have realistic expectations, but there are always exceptions - both in acceptances and rejections - so most of us have found you have to just leave it up to fate.</p>
<p>That’s hard when you have a kid with a dream, but on the other hand, getting into a particular college is barely a blip on their life experience. Every step has its triumphs and disappointments, and virtually all of them are short-lived and quickly eclipsed by the next turn of the road.</p>
<p>A kid who has the stats for Northwestern is bound to get into more than one excellent college and has a great future ahead! Good luck!</p>
<p>You’ve gotten great answers and I have only a little to add, much of it anecdotal. </p>
<p>In D’s application year (she’s a sophomore now) the Chair of Communications told us that Theatre is the most competitive department in her school, and D says her Theatre friends who are campus tour guides always have the largest tour groups. ;-D</p>
<p>Northwestern admitted 40% of this year’s freshman class during the binding early decision round, so if NU is your top choice school and you don’t need to bring up test scores or grades, and don’t plan to choose a school based on your best offer of merit-based financial aid (NU’s aid is very generous but almost exclusively need-based), applying ED is probably smart. </p>
<p>I agree that Cherubs isn’t needed for admission (D wasn’t a Cherub but had done MPulse), and that most Cherubs are not ultimately admitted to NU. That said, I heard that last year 25 Cherubs were admitted during the ED round – though I don’t know that all of those were Theatre admits – so based on those numbers it sounds like Cherubs might have had a better than 15% admit rate. I’ve heard Cherubs is an awesome program (from a friend of D’s who also went to MPulse with her) but I wouldn’t do it just to gain an admissions edge. </p>
<p>As has been said, all any of us can do is create the strongest possible application and hope for the best. Our S is a senior applying to schools this year (including NU but not for Theatre), and I wish everyone great success! The great thing with hard working smart kids is that they will prosper wherever they land!</p>
<p>@connections - SO glad to hear your D’s year is off to a great start!!</p>
<p>@amtc - Hope your D is having a wonderful senior year!</p>
<p>“Northwestern admitted 40% of this year’s freshman class during the binding early decision round, so if NU is your top choice school and you don’t need to bring up test scores or grades, and don’t plan to choose a school based on your best offer of merit-based financial aid (NU’s aid is very generous but almost exclusively need-based), applying ED is probably smart.”</p>
<p>Ok, here’s the deal, and I understand no one can give me a definitive answer, but…</p>
<p>D loves NU and another school about equally. NU’s ED acceptance rate is 33%, and the other school is 19%, which - on it’s face - seems a strong reason to go NU ED, but with the stated cap on theatre girls, I’m thinking that NU’s actual ED rate may be in line with (if not lower than) the the other school; and therefore should not factor in the decision.</p>
<p>It’s a pickle, because, as we all know, we only get one ED app, and we want to chose it carefully.</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>Regardless of the statistics you really shouldn’t decide which to apply ED to based on your anticipated acceptance, there’s just no way to know! If she loves 2 schools equally and you are insisting that she apply ED to one then start making your lists. As far as a BA (or BS) in Theatre I’d be hard pressed to find one of equal overall quality combining both academics and acting. My daughter is a senior now and I can tell you that it’s an amazing program and getting better with changes that are being made every year.</p>
<p>Brown is a great school but very different in so many ways. First, they have a more open curriculum than NU, my daughter wanted more structure in her major. Second, they are basically in the middle of nowhere vs NU being right by Chicago. Third, their Theatre major is not nearly at the caliber as the program at NU.</p>
<p>As many on CC know, my daughter was admitted into Yale and turned them down. She loved it but not their MT program (which is basically non-existent and a more “put it together yourself” kind of situation). She chose NU and has never looked back. If she was a Math or History major (both real possibilities from her fathers viewpoint) then it would be Yale, but that wasn’t her choice. Your daughter needs to decide on her priorities, no one can help with that. Neither is terrible, help her to figure out what kind of learner she is; does she need structure or flexibility, that might help her with her decision. We have a really good friend who was very involved with Brown’s Improv group and is currently working a day job but is performing stand-up in NYC based on what he’s learned at Brown. He also was their sportscaster and got to go down to Florida for Spring Training for credit. Brown was exceptional for him, it would not have been for my daughter.</p>
<p>Your daughter has some work to do and it’s not based on admissions stats!</p>
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<p>I totally agree! In my opinion, the ONLY reason to apply ED is if a school is really your top choice. Remember that the NU ED statistics are misleading as they include a lot of recruited athletes, and also that NU says the ED pool consists of overall stronger applicants since those who apply ED do not need to bring up test scores or grades.</p>
<p>Brown was also on D’s list, but it was at least three tiers below NU for her, both because D found NU’s Theatre/MT program to be much stronger and also because she planned an unspecified double major and found that Brown didn’t have nearly as many highly-ranked schools as NU does.</p>
<p>Has your D visited both schools?</p>
<p>“Has your D visited both schools?”</p>
<p>Yes, she just spent an extended weekend at NU. I think rationally and practically, she sees NU as maybe a better choice for her, but she’s professed a strong emotional attachment to Brown. She spent six weeks at Brown’s theatre summer program and was able to spend time with some of the theatre undergrads, and was quite taken by the creativty and playwriting that seems to be happening there. I’m sure that’s happening at NU as well, but she just has not experienced it firsthand.</p>
<p>I hear what amtc and others are saying about ED, but, as a father, it’s hard for me to dismiss ED as a strategic factor. Particularly, given that NU takes 40% of the class ED.</p>
<p>Looking at our school’s Naviance scattergrams there seems to be some clear patterns with NU’s addmissions process; whereas, Brown’s seems almost random to me.</p>
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<p>There is no shortage of playwriting and creativity at NU. The first show D saw there was a production of Never the Sinner, written by award-winning alumnus John Logan (Tonys, Oscars, Emmys, Drama Desk Awards, etc) while he was a student. S recently saw Autopsia, another student-written play. D is currently helping to write this year’s Waa-Mu show, an original musical the students produce every year. The current mainstage show is The Verona Project, an original musical by faculty member Amanda Dehnert. Broadway’s August Osage County also grew out of NU faculty. NU’s sketch comedy troupe, Meow, was the training ground for folks such as Stephen Colbert, Cloris Leachman and Seth Meyers. In short, with over 60 student-produced shows every year there is probably more original work happening on the NU campus every day than any single student can keep track of.</p>
<p>That said, choosing a place to spend 4 years is very personal. I certainly wouldn’t urge your D to apply ED to NU if her heart lies elsewhere. Maybe in her case trying for both during RD then evaluating options once she has acceptances in hand makes better sense.</p>
<p>In either case, good luck to her!!</p>
<p>Yes, D was excited about The Verona Project. She didn’t see it, but talked about it. </p>
<p>She saw a student production of Ave Q and loved it. Loved that students packed the house to see it.</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>I agree with others that the choice of which of these two schools to apply to for ED should NOT be based on which of the two has the higher ED acceptance rate (better odds). ED really should be only used when there is a clear first choice school. If your D likes two schools fairly equally, ED might not be the way to go and wait for RD. If she really wants to apply ED to a school, she should be 100% certain that school is her first choice. </p>
<p>My theater kid did not apply to any BA schools. I do have another kid who attended Brown. NU and Brown are different in several ways.</p>
<p>The only thing I don’t agree with above is that amtc said that Brown is in the middle of nowhere. While Providence ain’t Chicago (!!), it still is a city with things to do and also is one hour from Boston. I live in the middle of nowhere. My kid who attended Brown wanted a much different environment than the middle of nowhere and got it at Brown.</p>
<p>I have known very strong theater students who chose Northwestern and others who chose Brown for theater. Both are wonderful, though different.</p>
<p>By the way, NU theater faculty member, Amanda Dehnert, used to be on the faculty at Brown.</p>
<p>arwarw, I hear what you’re saying. We didn’t apply ED because we needed grants/scholarships and had to be able to compare offers–but I’ve often thought you could treat ED as a strategy. I hear what people are saying also about only applying ED if you love the school, but if you have this situation between two nearly equal schools, then I think strategy can come to play. The problem is that Brown is very unpredictable as far as who they admit; I mean, all colleges are, but Brown is even more unpredictable than others statistically (at least, this is what our guidance counselor told us and it certainly bears out anecdotally). NU as you note has a less unpredictable pattern - never guaranteed - but also as you note there’s the Communications school cap on 50 girls that complicates things.</p>
<p>So strategy wise I think you have a wash–for both schools, there is too much unpredictability for different reasons to make it something you’d do more for strategy.</p>
<p>And that leaves us back to falling in love with the school. My D goes to NU and is thankfully loving it–there’s a ton of creativity and opportunity. NU is very highly regarded. But Brown is too. BRown also has a lot of creativity and your D went there for the pre college program. (And I agree with Soozie-I’m from a bigger city area, but found Providence charming and fun.) Could you look at other factors? For instance, how they do requirements for majors? Forgive me if I sound ignorant–but could you look at other factors that might tilt your decision one way or another? Soozie speaks of their ‘differences’–could you investigate these more closely to see if either matches your daughter better?</p>
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<p>Yes</p>
<p>Any feedback here I’d appreciate.</p>
<p>We can compare the curriculums and professors by the web sites. We understand the Brown open curriculum. She kind of gets the campus vibe, I think. NU more preprofessional, Big Ten School, more structure. Brown a little more bohemian.</p>
<p>What else?</p>
<p>My older D applied ED to THE ONE school that felt so right it was a like a rock hit her in the chest the minute she walked on campus. Research only reinforced that feeling over the next two years, and we let her apply ED. She got in, went there, and was very happy. She also knew she could have been happy at other schools, but she had no regrets.</p>
<p>D2, while just as passionate about going to college, knew she needed her entire senior year to decide what was best for her. She loved several schools, for various reasons. The two she loved best had fall auditions and ED options, but she knew she wasn’t ready to apply nor commit at that time. She did apply EA and rolling to as many schools as possible, but her choice took until May 1, including a prolonged decision period after she was accepted to one school off the waitlist.</p>
<p>Your D might love both of these schools enough to commit ED to one of them. But if there is any chance she could have a “what if” experience or simply would just like more time to think about where she wants to go the most, I don’t think ED is for her. When admissions rates clearly favor ED applicants, that is only a tipping point between ED and RD if the student was considering ED at that ONE school already. I don’t think it’s a good strategy between two ED schools, since as has been said above, the statistics aren’t really reliable. Plus, even though NU does not audition, it is absolutely unclear how they factor in the student’s resume when deciding whom to accept for the theatre major. I think that nullifies percentages, for those kids.</p>
<p>As for choosing between NU and Brown - I think if your D doesn’t know now which one is clearly better for her style, because no one can tell you one is a “lesser” school, then she just needs to do some personal searching before she decides. My Ds both weighed a lot of factors - curriculum, location, size, “style,” etc. - in choosing a school. D1 found everything she was looking for in one school, much to everyone’s surprise. D2 found different things at different schools; one school that probably “had it all” ended up rejecting her, and the schools that accepted her were all on different spots in her spectrum of needs and interests. She had to think and consider (repeated visiting was not really feasible) and ultimately take a chance by choosing the school where what it HAD was more important to her than what it DIDN’T have. In the long run, this has played out very positively for her.</p>
<p>My opinion that a kid who has done extended visits to two schools and still can’t decide which she likes better needs some time to decide what is THE most important long-term factor, or to let a gut feeling emerge. I know your D will do very well and end up someplace great. In your shoes I’d go with RD for both - and some EA and rolling as other options - and let her spend her year digesting this important decision. While I appreciate as much as anyone the fear that a school you love will reject you, that can happen for so many reasons that the needs of the student, in my opinion, really do end up being most important.</p>
<p>Another factor: I recall that the NU application required a significant “Why NU” essay - if your D can’t write this with a fully empassioned voice, at the level at which they would expect an ED candidate to, I wonder if she might realize she’d rather apply RD, when she wouldn’t have to sound like she doesn’t want to go to any other school.</p>
<p>I also want to agree with those who do NOT think Providence is “the middle of nowhere.” It is a terrific little city (I have lots of family connections there) and has a wonderful theatre scene. It is not Chicago (where I lived for many years), but it is not the opposite, by any means.</p>
<p>And to address the OP’s latest question: Personally, I have lots of secondary connections to both Brown and NU. First, I went to the University of Chicago and never once would have considered NU. It’s a wonderful school, but the Big 10, pre-professional, vibe was NOT for me. My second choice after U of C was Brown. </p>
<p>My two Ds strongly considered NU. D1 was a top stat kid, and for her the NU vibe appealed more than U of C, but it was a tiny bit too big and too rah-rah for her. She also planned to apply to Brown, although she wasn’t completely enthralled with the lack of structure - I guess for her, like you D, while Brown and NU were each on different sides of center for her, they both appealed. But for her, all was moot, since she applied and was accepted to Tufts ED. </p>
<p>D2 had lower stats, but good enough to try for NU as a reach, mostly because of its location and reputation of the theatre program. She visited after she applied, and realized it wasn’t a good fit for her - I would say she’s more like a Brown type, although not completely bohemian, which Brown really isn’t. She had enough schools so didn’t apply to Brown - instead she applied to Vassar, Brandeis and Bard, among others (but not Sarah Lawrence or Hampshire, both of which she considered too far on the “bohemian” spectrum for her taste). She was rejected by NU, which ended up being no real disappointment for her (from another thread you can see that she probably didn’t have the theatre resume they were looking for, either), and by Vassar, which stung more, but she was accepted by her other BA schools.</p>
<p>It took her all year to manage the decisions she needed to make about her BFA journey, and also to decided what kind of school appealed to her the most - including the final BFA/BA decision. There were some surprising twists and turns as she explored where she stood on the "rah-rah’ — bohemian spectrum; the results were hard to find and ultimately she took a chance. She ended up in a BFA, in an artsy/Great Books honors college program within a very conventional and not highly prestigious university, outside of NYC - a factor which was VERY important to her. She also got a huge merit scholarship, which changes her long-term game plan in many positive ways.</p>
<p>Your D is of course a wholly different person, but I wanted to paint this picture of how someone might think about these things and where it might lead.</p>
<p>I may have something to add to this discussion. Northwestern and Brown are clearly both outstanding schools, but I believe they attract different types of theatre students and I think your daughter should decide what kind of theatre environment she craves.
Northwestern is clearly known as a top theatre program. Meaning a kid from northwestern could potentially get work right out of college without further training, just like a BFA student.
A Brown student would most likely need to get an MFA before being equally employable in theatre. This is obviously not a fact, but I have been scouring playbills for at least 5 years, so I say this with confidence.
I think the climate at the school’s theatre departments would also be different. I would bet Northwestern’s will be more competitive and harder to get cast. Brown will most likely have less “serious” theatre students which could be a benefit or a negative, depending on what your daughter wants.
If your daughter wants to get a MFA, I think Brown would be the way to go. The Ivy league degree helps open the door at places like Yale and NYU.
If your daughter wants training more similar to a BFA with a more competitive theatre environment , I would pick Northwestern. Either way, she’d be in a great school.</p>