<p>Tendency to goof? I think I'm anything but goofy when I write things on CC...... but we are all entitled to our own opinions..... :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Sam Lee,
I should've posted a smiley next to my last line. I don't think there is really much difference between Ann Arbor and Evanston. They are both great college towns.</p>
<p>Save your money for Grad school. If you can get a very good scholarship to Northwestern, then go, but under 10K a year plus the 4K that you get from the MEAP means 9K a year vs a lot more.</p>
<p>If $$ is not an issue or if NU ponies up the financial aid to make things roughly equal - I would say NU - otherwise, UoM (since going into significant debt should be avoided, if possible).</p>
<p>
[quote]
The fact that we haven't found any might make people distrust the President's judgement, but it should gold-plate his honesty. He could have very easily taken enormous heat off himself by having some covert operators guarantee that something was found. And unlike his predecessor, he would have been able to plant something without splattering his DNA all over the place. Talk about a smoking gun....
[/quote]
</p>
<p>LOL!!!! </p>
<p>Which is why (1) Bush kept repeating 9/11 and Iraq so that at one point over 70% of the US pop. believed Saddam/Iraq had a hand in 9/11; (2) everything Bush/Cheney and their cabal raised as "evidence" of WMDs was refuted or, at least, put in serious doubt - but Cheney and Co. kept stating their claims in the absoute - that there was "no doubt", etc.; (3) they were so eager to use forged Niger documents to "prove" their case even when the forged documents were quite shabby forgeries, at best; (4) Bush and Cheney repeatedly used Ansar al Islam (a Kurdish group affiliated with al Qaeda) as "evidence" that Saddam harbored groups partnered with al Qaeda - never mind that Ansar was a sworn enemy of Saddam and was under US protection in the "no-fly" zone; etc.</p>
<p>Michigan economy declining. Not a good omen for UM funding.</p>
<p>kk, maybe you're not TRYING to be goofy, but....</p>
<p>a friend of mine chose Northwestern over Michigan but... he's way too rich for his own good.</p>
<p>Many students pick NU over Michigan. Some do it for the wrong reasons (private vs public or perceived prestige), others do it for the right reasons (better fit or particular programs like Journalism).</p>
<p>UM has a very large endowment, I'm sure it will be fine for a while.</p>
<p>"Some do it for the wrong reasons (private vs public or perceived prestige)"</p>
<p>-Not to be too combative, but "private vs public" is sometimes a valid reason for choosing a college. From financial disclosure practices to a school’s stance on Affirmative Action, there are several reasons why this criterion is a often a valid one for choosing a school. </p>
<p>As for perceived prestige, there's a reason why Harvard doesn't loose many applicants to ITT Tech...</p>
<p>KK, I hate to break it to you, but NU is not harvard and Michigan is definitely not ITT. In terms of prestige, NU and Michigan are roughly the same. In some ways, Michigan is more prestigious than NU and in other ways, NU is more prestigious than Michigan. </p>
<p>As for public vs private, I agree that in some instances, there are major differences between the two. Princeton and the University of Minnesota could not be futher apart. But Michigan, given its vast resources, world class facilities, beautiful and well maintain campus, successful and loyal alums, impressive placement rates into top graduate schools and exclusive companies and wealthy student body has the appearance of a private university. </p>
<p>Like I said, chosing NU over Michigan because of the two above reason is not wise. There are indeed reasons why one would chose one over the other. If one wishes to major in Journalism or feels more at home on NU's campus, chosing NU would make perfect sense. If one wishes to be close to a major city like Chicago, again NU makes perfect sense. If the cost of attending NU is significantly cheaper ($5,000/year or more) than the cost of attending Michigan, again, choing NU would make perfect sense. And the same goes the other way. If one wishes to major in Nursing or Architecture, Michigan is probably a better choice than NU. If one feels more at home at the University of Michigan than at NU, Michigan would also be the better choice. If one prefers Ann Arbor to Evanston, again, Michigan would make sense. If Michigan costs significantly less than NU ($5,000/year or more), then again, Michigan would probably be the better choice etc...</p>
<p>I personally object to Michigan's stand on AA. However, chosing against a university for that reason is like cutting one's nose to spite one's face. The University's stand on AA, pathetic as it may be, will not impact a student's experience at the University.</p>
<p>"KK, I hate to break it to you, but NU is not harvard and Michigan is definitely not ITT."</p>
<p>-I'm not saying this. I'm just saying that perceived prestige is most certainly a reason why many choose a school. </p>
<p>"Like I said, chosing NU over Michigan because of the two above reason is not wise."</p>
<p>-Well I'm glad you're now the 'what's wise' police....</p>
<p>"has the appearance of a private university."</p>
<p>-Oh really? And how is that so? What does a private university look like? I really would like to hear this. </p>
<p>I am in no way saying now, nor have I said in this thread, that choosing Michigan over Northwestern is a bad choice. I'm saying that many assert that Michigan is just naturally cheaper than Northwestern when the facts seem to say otherwise, especially for non-Michigan students. </p>
<p>Despite your love for Michigan, I know I would not like being at a Public school, nor would I want to be at a school with 25,000+ undergrads, and for me, those reasons alone are enough for me to cut Michigan for a place like Northwestern. While you may think it unwise, I think it personal preference and fit. How can you list reasons why people 'should' choose one school over the other (location, programs, etc), yet scoff at the idea of a person not wanting to be at a public school? This seems kind of hypocritical to me. </p>
<p>"However, chosing against a university for that reason is like cutting one's nose to spite one's face. The University's stand on AA, pathetic as it may be, will not impact a student's experience at the University"</p>
<p>-The stand on AA won't affect a student's experience??? Come on... Berkeley is what 45% Asian since it changed its view on AA??? I'd say a non-Asian student would be pretty affected by that.</p>
<p>KK, first of all, your reasons for chosing NU over Michigan are perfectly reasonable. You wanted a smaller school and that is a legitimate reason. But you ask me "Oh really? And how is that so? What does a private university look like? I really would like to hear this." KK, you are the one claiming that there is a difference. I am the one who says that on the ground, you will not notice the difference between a public like Michigan or UVa and a private university. It seems like it is up to you to make the case for the difference between a public and private university. Except for the fact that in-state students pay less money (as well they should since their parents have paid taxes to the state for decades) to attend those schools, you are not likely to see that many differences between UVA and Michigan and say NU or Cornell.</p>
<p>As for AA's effect on Cal vs Michigan, you cannot compare them. Michigan's race distribution reflects the national averages. African Americans make up 10% of the student body, Asian Americans make up 15% of the population and Latin Americans make up 5% of the student population. Altogether, roughly 30% of Michigan are minorities, which is pretty similar to the overall US population. So AA may have skewed things a tad bit in the UC system, but definitely not at Michigan. I do not make whimsical claims here KK. If I say something, it is generally spot on. Students at Michigan hardly feel the effect of AA. I am one of those who feels Michigan's commitment to AA, as well-intentioned as it may be, is not benifital to the University. However, the 15% of the students who benefit from AA aren't changing the face of the University.</p>
<p>Take it to the football field, where it belongs, gentlemen; this is otherwise just pre-game hyperbole.</p>
<p>As if this year's Rose Bowl hasn't taught us the lesson. :p</p>
<p>Sam Lee, This year's Rose Bowl is not indicative of Michigan's recent history, which includes a NC and 4 other top 10 seasons in the last decade, including 4 Big 10 titles. But I agree, picking a school because it has a good football program is not that wise either!</p>
<p>LOL! Alexandre, I was just following up Dorothy_ParkerX's comment, not trying to mess with the mighty Michigan football. :D</p>
<p>As a grad student, let me give you some perspective:</p>
<p>1) You are majoring in chem. That means you are very likely going to want to go to grad school. Grad school is expensive (many people aren't funded, some are partially funded, and job prospects in any field can be iffy). Who wants to get out of school after years and years and face a ton of debt?</p>
<p>2) Both universities are excellent. Providing they are both top tier, one will not be an advantage over the other for either grad applications or jobs. Both are well-respected.</p>
<p>3) Having a large student loan debt can impact your credit scores when you graduate. This makes it harder to buy cars, houses, etc. at a decent rate.</p>
<p>Honestly, for undergrad, it matters less than you might think. Go to Michigan - your bank account will thank you.</p>
<p>The one caveat is that certain employers/recruiters do look at colleges/universities as the first step in weeding out applicants - so they may look at an applicant from UoM with a little closer scrutiny than one from NU (just as a prospective employer may dig a little deeper with regard to an applicant from UVA as opposed to Duke).</p>
<p>Is this worth tens of thousands of dollars? Probably not.</p>
<p>No employer is going to scrutinize your record more closely because you went to Michigan as opposed to Northwestern. Trust me. While job hunting, in all honesty, the name of my undergrad never came up. If you do well at Michigan and have good letters of rec, that's all employers or grad schools are going to be concerned about.</p>