<p>"on the whole academically, UPENN just beats out NU"
I think in terms of the whole academic thing, NU and Penn are just similar except for the prestigious Wharton bschool.
what Penn does beat out NU is on ranking i guess</p>
<p>All the colleges on your list will have a drinking scene of some sort.. as for Duke, I know of people there who don't drink at all and still manage to have a healthy and happy social life.
From what I understand, the drinking scenes are definitely big at Duke and Dartmouth, but if you don't want to get involved.. you don't have to worry about not having a fun time. </p>
<p>By the way, Northwestern's frat scene is about as big as that of Duke & Dartmouth.
Percentage of Undergrads In Fraternities/Sororities
Northwestern: 35%
Dartmouth: 37%
Duke: 35%
UPenn: 21%</p>
<p>Also I don't much about the specific departments you're looking for.. but out of these two, I would say choose UPenn, if you are looking for the best undergrad education.</p>
<p>football, I don't see how Amherst can offer more than NU in terms of academics when its faculty is certainly a great deal smaller...what it can offer is more individual attention</p>
<p>Also, break down of the caliber of students who attend Penn and NU, and I'll add in Dartmouth and Duke incase you were wondering if the large fraternity scenes at either meant the kids who attend weren't as strong:</p>
<p>Average SATs:
Penn: 1330 - 1510
Northwestern: 1320 - 1500
Dartmouth:1350 - 1540
Duke: 1380 - 1540</p>
<p>% in top 10% of HS class:
Penn: 94%
NU: 83%
Duke: 87%
Dartmouth: 90%</p>
<p>National Merit Scholars (absolute number)
Penn: 100
Northwestern: 50
Dartmouth: 60
Duke: 120</p>
<p>No matter where you go out of these schools, you'll be with bright students. NU has more fraternity presence too, as coola noted. Fraternity presence doesn't have to strongly correlate with a less intellectual environment, since talented and informed people do join fraternities.</p>
<p>Also, in terms of having faculty who are active sociology researchers, Penn has an edge, as well as Duke:
<a href="http://chronicle.com/stats/productivity/page.php?primary=3&secondary=32&bycat=Go%5B/url%5D">http://chronicle.com/stats/productivity/page.php?primary=3&secondary=32&bycat=Go</a></p>
<p>For overall research spending etc. take a look at this - Penn is a solid choice in terms of overall research and Duke and Northwestern are both excellent as well:
<a href="http://mup.asu.edu/research2006.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://mup.asu.edu/research2006.pdf</a></p>
<p>The reason Dartmouth doesn't show up in the above is that its a smaller school (note that Amherst doesn't show up on either as well).</p>
<p>Those are some very helpful links, Alexandre and thethoughtprocess. How do I measure the strength of Northwestern's sociology department relative to its peers if it's not in the top 10?</p>
<p>Does either keep track of the level of interest shown by the student, even in transfer admissions? I wish I could visit, but I would need to save up first. I have a strict budget on everything.</p>
<p>I actually wasn't concerned that frat scenes would detract from the academic experience. I was just curious about the degree to which they influence social happenings. From what I hear, Dartmouth's social life revolves around drinking/partying. Is this accurate? I'm also curious about the correlation between the presence of Greek like and the heterosexism of the students.</p>
<p>"How do I measure the strength of Northwestern's sociology department relative to its peers if it's not in the top 10"</p>
<p>-Northwestern is every bit as good at sociology as its peers. I’d suggest you just 'assume' that the peer schools are pretty much equal in their departments. The link TTP provided has Harvard, Penn, and NYU as the best for sociology, yet US News has Wisconsin, Berkeley, and Michigan…… If I were you, I wouldn't try to validate my choice with any random ranking; I'd pick a school for fit and strive to be successful at said school.</p>
<p>The link I gave wasn't for overall strength of department, just for how active the faculty is in terms of publications, getting grants, etc. - which I feel is important if you want to search for research opportunities. Penn has a smaller number of students and more active faculty which those students can seek out to work with than some of the larger state school peers.</p>
<p>Basically, NU and Penn are very similar academically - anyone telling you different is either talking about Wharton (school of business) or goes to Penn. The areas you are interested in would be great at either school.</p>
<p>*heterosexist tendencies of students</p>
<p>Anyway, I'll be emailing professors to get a better idea of what the department is like, what the major foci are, how active the students are, etc.</p>
<p>Thanks very much.</p>