<p>I am a chemical engineering major trying to decide between UPenn and Northwestern... and having a difficult time... mainly because I don't really feel like i want to do engineering as a career and that I want to head more in the direction of the financial business world after graduation, and therefore would probably be in better shape if I went to Penn? Still... I seem to be ever so slightly leaning toward Northwestern...</p>
<p>So i'm wondering... why should i pick northwestern over Upenn? or berkeley... or why should i NOT pick NU?</p>
<p>For econ, they are roughly equal, very hard to say. Penn may have the edge in prestige. For engineering, Northwestern is definitely better. Have you visited them?</p>
<p>Econ is about the same. You have a chance to get in the Kellogg certificate program. You also have a chance to transfer into Wharton. But Kellogg cert has 50 spots for financial economics and 50 spots for managerial analytics and only those that complete or on their way to complete all the prereqs can apply. I don't know the # spots available for transfer to Wharton but I don't expect it's more than 5 per year. So you decide.</p>
<p>I live in the Philadelphia area and know a lot of kids at Penn and also have a son at Northwestern. A couple of things: if you're not already accepted into Wharton, you will find it's extremely difficult to become a Wharton major after the fact. Do not think that just because you are admitted to the School of Engineering or SAS you can transfer to Wharton for business. They take very few additional majors after the incoming freshman class and it is hard for non-Wharton students to take Wharton classes.</p>
<p>Secondly, Penn, because it really is a urban campus rather than Northwestern, which is a suburban campus right next to a big city, has a little less unity among the students. A lot of Penn students move off campus quickly and are scattered through different neighborhoods in Philly. Granted, the kids who live in West Philly have more proximity to Penn and do some of the social things on campus but the majority of students live in Center City and live most of their social life away from Penn. </p>
<p>And since Penn has a large contingent from the New York metropolitan area, a lot of those kids go up to New York City on the weekends to see their friends at Columbia, NYU, etc. Philly is a great city unto itself but when you're only 2 hours from home and your high school buddies, it's not uncommon to drift back.</p>
<p>Yes, the Chicago winters are much fiercer than the Philadelphia ones. And there is nothing prettier than a Philadelphia spring. On the other hand, Penn is a little colder from the inside out - more of that urbane, East Coast, type A kid - than Northwestern which gets a boost from "midwestern pride" as my son calls it.</p>
<p>Yeah, if your not already in Wharton or M&T program at Penn, then you can forget about being a business major. You can still get an engineering degree and go on to get a MBA, but Nothwestern has 2 special cerificate programs from Kellogg, which as you may know is in the top 5 business schools, and the one in managerial analytics is specifically designed for engineering students. Its a selective certificate program, but odds of getting in the certificate program are better than transfering into Wharton.</p>
<p>I'm a current student at Penn--there is no barrier whatsoever to taking classes in Wharton if you are an undergraduate at one of the other schools. Penn in fact strongly emphasizes this through their focus on the importance of an interdisciplinary education in all their brochures and publications, and is made possible by their "one university concept." I do agree however, that it is difficult to pursue a major in Wharton if not originally enrolled there due to the small size of their class. Nonetheless, there are several 'inter-school minors' which are open to everyone (no strings attached) such as Consumer Psychology (Marketing from Wharton + Psychology from CAS), Legal Studies and History (again W+CAS), and Urban Studies and Real Estate, among others. As an Engineering student, you can take as many classes in the College of Arts and Sciences, the Wharton School, and the Nursing school (or for that matter any of the 12 graduate schools) as you like, and these are all recorded on your transcript should that concern you.</p>
<p>"but odds of getting in the certificate program are better than transfering into Wharton."</p>
<p>plus the certificate program is exponentially better than a business degree from wharton, especially because it comes in conjunction with an engineering degree in this case.</p>
<p>hahahaha certificate program better than a business degree from wharton? that seems hardly believable... maybe an engineering degree + the certificate.</p>
<p>I have no intentions of switching into Wharton as of right now, just in taking some classes there. The certificate thing at NU is definently one of the big things pulling me there though...</p>
<p>What do most engineers coming out of NU do after graduation?</p>
<p>If you are talking about industrial engineering/management sciences (IEMS), a lot of grads went on to do business/management consulting. The program is kinda a hybrid of both anyway and highly rated (ranked 6th). Otherwise, it's really up to you if you have semi-decent grades. My friend from Hong Kong was a chemE with high GPA; he could certainly get chemE job but in the end, he was hired by Goldman Sachs' HK office. Other than the IEMS kids, most probably do work as engineers after graduation.</p>
<p>Since you are interested in chemE but also seem to be interested in business, you reminded me of this other guy from Hong Kong. He was pretty bright but found chemE homework too time-consuming for him. He switched to IEMS and ended up doing hedge fund at Wall Street.</p>
<p>"hahahaha certificate program better than a business degree from wharton? that seems hardly believable... maybe an engineering degree + the certificate."</p>
<p>i don't know why i'm responding to a post with four "has" in response to something i said but:</p>
<p>sorry, it's just very surprising that a certificate that requires, what, 4 classes? (i might be mistaken) is anywhere near as good as a whole degree from wharton...</p>
<p>i also went to those "road to business" things at the preview days and was impressed.</p>
<p>i'm leaning toward northwestern right now... much to the surprise of my fellow seniors who think ucberkeley, upenn, or ucla would be "much better choices"... but brrrr it's so cold</p>
<p>Tedhead....at this stage, I'm going to offer you the same advice I gave my S. He was down to NU and another school of its caliber and chose the other school. When it comes down to the level of schools that you're considering.....you must stop listening to all the noise and go with your heart. You are not going to make a wrong choice from the point of view of academics, prestige, rankings, your future, etc. You've been accepted into fantastic institutions and now you have to decide where you best see yourself going to school for the next four years. To be repetitive, at this level, nothing else really matters at this point. Go with your heart.</p>
<p>well i don't know whether or not from an educational standpoint more material will be learned in the certificate program, since what you cited, the limited class time; just that i assume it will be seen as more prestigious to graduate with a kellogg certificate on your NU degree than with a wharton business degree</p>
<p>Sorry, have to weigh in on that one. Wharton undergrad or Kellogg certificate? No regard to quality of education whatsoever in what I'm about to say and with high regard for the previous poster's loyalty to nu (which is a great place), but an undergrad business degree from Wharton wins.</p>
<p>The undergrad certificate is actually a different animal. It's not a degree program and it has only 4 courses yet they are more advanced than your average course in any undergrad business program, including Wharton. It's new so it's difficult to guage how the employers view it. At this point, I'd say Wharton still win. </p>
<p>Most people that are graduating with the certificate are econ majors though. I think that will be a turn-on to many employers because the students have gone through the rigor of a more theoretical field and the practical training of financial economics. Not to mention the caliber of these grads are gonna actually be higher than Whartonites because they are cream of the crops at NU. The 4 courses in financial economics are suppposed to be more rigorous than average Wharton courses (average Wharton students don't take nearly as many math/stats/econometrics as prerequisites). They are also meant to pretty technical and focus more on derivatives valuation and financial modeling..etc rather than marketing, leadership, or management. </p>
<p>So mtldad, I think it could be more interesting and less clear-cut than you think--in terms of how the econ+cert grads stack up against the Whartonites. I wouldn't be suprised some employers that look for people with sharp technical skills may end up favoring these grads from NU. I am not saying you are necessarily wrong but I am just not certain.</p>
<p>I am sure that educationally it's super. I know that you're an nu student and I think that the place is great. It was a very tough decision for my S to turn down nu. Having said that, strictly speaking to the piece of paper that the degree will be printed on, undergraduate----it's wharton.</p>
<p>On a grad basis, I'll be glad to listen, but on an undergrad basis....we're all proud of the schools that we go to or went to, but it's wharton.</p>
<p>You'd be surprised how top companies know about the details. If you look at the kind of internships that MMSS students get, it's pretty close, if not on even footing, to Whartonites in terms of fraction of them that pursue and then get into elite firms. And now we are talking about another program that's a step-up from MMSS. I wouldn't be suprised if higher fraction of them get into their top choices in job hunt.</p>
<p>No, I wouldn't be surprised at all.....we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one......however, I think that you might have an interesting poll to conduct....simply to ask undergraduate students of both programs that, if they were admitted to both programs (without any regard for other variables...cities, etc.)....which would they choose to attend?</p>