Not a Parent - But Curious

@project21 Humor us and please apply to a couple of your more affordable in state publics. We get it you hate hot weather. I propose you take 1K every Winter Break and go skiing somewhere. You’ll be 4K in debt over the course of 4 years with that. And at least it will be fun because you can ski (or whatever) rather than spend the weekends slinging burgers trying to make enough $$ to pay for your astronomically high Feb heating bill in your first sh!!!y college apartment.

What things look like in December or January have a way of getting ugly come May when you have to plunk down that money and sign away your first born child on those loan papers. This is coming from the mom of a kid who got into Northeastern with a (to us) horrifying 45K bill plus 5.5K of loans in her name. Needless to say she did not go there. She went somewhere the bill came to 12K plus a 1K loan in her name. And she’ll likely graduate with no debt because we can probably cover what she had to take out when all is said and done.

Find those schools that will not ruin your or your parents’ future finances. They are out there.

If your EFC is about $14,000, that is your parent’s expected contribution, not the toal that you’d be expected to pay… Some schools will add loans to that amount, and then add in some amount of workstudy for you, and THEN some more that you are supposed to earn in the summer. So you could easily be looking at a total bill of well over $20,000 each year. All that relies on the school paying “full need,” which many do not.

FYI, Purdue does NOT cover need. For my child, Purdue’s calculator said our EFC was very low, and then they generously said we could have a small loan. Nothing else. But, they do have some merit aid which at best will cover half of tuition.

On the other hand, Northwestern does a good job covering need.

I work at a large state university. Years ago, the university frowned upon community college transfers, hoping to discourage high school grads from starting at a community college. But now, it is SO common for students to attend the first two years at a community college that the large university embraces these transfer students. Times are changing. Some of our best students come to us via the local community college.

@project21 – just to clarify what your FAFSA means, as you clearly have been misinformed -

FAFSA is used to determine your eligibility for federal financial aid.

There are three types of federal aid:

  1. Pell grants
  2. Direct Student Loans
  3. Work Study

Pell grants are very small grants given to very low income students. The maximum annual Pell grant for 2017-2018 will be slightly under $6000 (it varies from year to year). Your 13,000 EFC is too high to qualify – basically this is only available to families with EFC’s of ~$5200 or less (that varies too, but the point is simply that you don’t qualify for this grant). A Pell grant is a government subsidy that does not have to be paid bck.

Direct Student loans are funded by the government, but you have to pay it back with interest. The maximum you can borrow your first year is $5500; in your second year the maximum is $6500; and in the third and fourth year you can borrow a maximum of $7500. Your EFC determines about whether you are eligible to have any parts of these loans be subsidized; with a subsidized loan payments are deferred until after you graduate, and you are not charged interest during the period of deferment. If your EFC is less than the COA for your school, you will be eligible for subsidized loans, but the maximum that may be subsidized in year 1 is $3500; in year 2 $4500; and in years 3 & 4 - $5500.

In other words, with your EFC, you will be able to borrow $19,000 total (over 4 years) while you are in school without being charged interest or having to make payments until after you graduate; you will also be eligible to borrow an additional $8000 ($27,000 total) – but will be charged interest on those loans from the outset, although you can opt to defer payments until after graduation. (But then your interest is added to the loan balance, so when you do start making payments, you will owe a lot more than you have borrowed.

Here’s the official web site that has this information: https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/types/loans/subsidized-unsubsidized

Work-study is a federal program that subsidizes wages that are paid to students for campus jobs. If your EFC is lower than COA, then you are eligible for work study – but each college will decide how much work-study to approve you for, if any. So you might get a financial aid award that approves you for $4000 of work-study, for example. You don’t get that money until you earn it, so it can’t be used for tuition – ordinarily you would use those earnings to cover expenses that come up later on, such as incidental expenses, buying text books, etc.


I think that the answer to your original questions is that ideally, parents and students discuss the "who pays" issue before the student begins applying for college. Wealthier parents -- or parents who have prioritized saving for college expenses -- may very well pay full cost for their child to attend college as well as providing an allowance to the child.

Middle class families like mine will typically split costs - in my case, I paid for tuition and housing, but expected my kids to borrow the maximum available in subsidized loans and to earn money with part-time jobs and summer employment. (I did not want my kids to take unsubsidized loans because I don't think that's wise financially). 

When parents are unwilling or unable to contribute, students have more limited options --they need to attend schools they can afford, such as community colleges, colleges that award scholarships, or in-state options that are affordable. Living at home and commuting to a nearby public university is a common option.  The combination of a Pell grant, federal loans, and work study is probably enough to cover tuition and other costs at most public universities, if the student doesn't have to pay for housing.

You have some good options on your college list but your attitude about  your state university is not really a tenable decision for anyone in your situation.  I understand that you don't like living in Arizona, but you have your entire life to live somewhere else.  Dislike of climate is the sort of criteria that is reasonable when  you have a choice between two or more options; it's not a good reason to refuse to apply to any affordable college altogether.  I think that various state U's in Arizona have rolling admissions and/or later application deadlines, so I would suggest that you rethink your options and apply to one or more in-state universities.  You will be in a better position to weigh options in the spring when you have financial aid packages in hand.  

Your idea about loans are simply unrealistic.  You simply are not going to be able to borrow the amount of money that you think you can. 

For an Arizona resident student with 3.9 HS GPA, 30 ACT, and $13,000 FAFSA EFC living on campus, Arizona State University’s net price calculator suggests a net price of $16,744. $5,500 in federal direct loans and $3,500 of work study may be offered to cover some of it, leaving $7,744 for the parents to cover (or if the student can earn a greater than typical amount during the summers).

If living with parents, the suggested net price is $9,154, though it suggests only $5,500 federal direct loans but not work study to cover some of it (does not preclude getting some other part time job while attending school).

https://students.asu.edu/financialaid/net-price

For University of Arizona, the net price estimate is $17,400 on campus, $8,700 living with parents.

http://financialaid.arizona.edu/general/net-price-calculator

FYI, the max EFC is not 15,000. I am not aware that there is actually a maximum EFC. Some families may have an EFC in the six digits, others under 5k. With a 14k EFC, at some schools there will be need biased aid. At others not at all beyond a portion of the max loan offered as subsidized.

The plan is that we pay, and they take out the loans they are eligible for. We stand a very good chance at some financial aid, but I’m not counting on it and it will be gravy, anyway. We have enough squirreled away for both girls to mostly full pay a state school, but scholarships, financial aid and some loans will help. We expect both of them to contribute from savings and work, but that amount is TBD and is dependent on the rigors of their respective majors.

I discussed the loans with my junior, and said we would help her pay them back when we could - that was always what my husband and I discussed, that we’d sometimes cover a payment. She said “Why would you help me pay them back? They are my responsibility.”

I refrained from hugging her right then and there, lol.

I don’t think OP knows what the family’s EFC is. He also posted his EFC=013919. Is that what the calculator would show when it comes to money? I think he just assumed it would be 13,000 because he assumed the most many parents can pay is 15,000.
I don’t know how this student got to this point. This is winter of his senior year and most application deadlines have passed, no one has advised him on what schools he could afford to go and what options are available to him. I hope parents on CC will be able to help him out.
OP - if I were you, I would come straight out to let parents on CC know what are your parents’ reported income, what they can afford, etc, so they could help you map out a workable strategy for you to go to college.

LOL the “max” EFC is higher than the highest cost of any college in the US. I know, because I calculated it. That is, in the range of $100k.

I would say very high percentage of families in the NE are full pay (60-70K/year), but it doesn’t mean they can afford it.

I know a student (average grades and scores in the real world, not CC world) who has a $0 EFC. She received the full Pell grant, full subsidized loans, unsubsidized loans up to the extended amount, SEOG grant, Work Study…Her most affordable choices were an out of state private school which gave her merit aid which would cost her an additional $14K out of pocket after the maximum loans and an in state non-flagship (also with merit aid) which would cost her $5K out of pocket after loans. Plus there would be no significant travel costs to the state school. Being a bright and REALLY cash strapped teen, guess which she chose?

This is real life and you are too old to be living in fantasy land!!! You need to add some financial safeties to your list or you will just not be going to college next year!

Say what??

This makes NO sense.

Your FAFSA EFC is the MINIMUM…read that again…MINIMUM…you can expect to pay to attend colleges.

The college the OP says is a safety…um…not likely. The school does NOT guarantee to meet full need. While he would get 1/2 tuition in a scholarship…this would still leave him paying $20,000 a year…or so. From where??

To @project21 remember this…your parents WILL be expected to pay that EFC. Schools do NOT award need based aid to cover the EFC. In addition…IF you get a merit award, it will likely reduce your need based aid at that school. Most schools do not stack need based and merit awards. So if you get $10,000 in scholarships, your financial need will be LESS…and your need based aid will go down.

@oldfort -For some bizarre reason, this is how the FAFSA spits out the EFC. (It’s like the don’t want to shock you with a dollar amount.)

OP- it seems you’ve had some major misinformation and assumptions. You have already been given some good advice here so I won’t repeat it, but I do hope you heed it.

To answer your question in our case–My H and I felt it was our responsibility to pay for out kids’ educations. Why? First, Our parents paid for ours, so that probably paid a part in that thinking. But also because we have the means and we wanted our kids to be able to focus on their education. They do contribute some, are taking out some small loans, have some scholarships, and are responsible for their “fun” money, but otherwise the major bulk is on us. How do we do it? We have always lived well below our means and have paid off our house (this helps a lot!) and while they are in school we have tried to delay as many major expenses as possible (unnecessary purchases, major vacations or home improvements, etc.) until after they are out of school.

I completed undergrad with no debt due to a full-ride at an in-state public university. (Go Blue!) We opened a 529 when kiddo was in first grade and saved enough to cover the full cost of any school in the country. He chose a service academy (free). Kids. Can’t control 'em.

Your bet best is the Barrett Honors college at ASU and suck up your attitude about the weather. It sounds like you may have the grades/scores for the full in-state tuition scholarship, and Barrett is one of the best honors colleges in the country. Your goal should be to get a great education, not escape weather; you have a lifetime to determine where you will eventually live and a planet of places to choose from. You are turning your back on the plum in your backyard.

Perhaps at some colleges (since many skew heavily toward students from wealthy families), but the percentage of families with income and wealth that would produce an EFC (FAFSA or most colleges’ institutional) of > $60,000 is probably in the single digits.

One thing that seriously impressed me was the number of CC parents who admitted their own college debt was crushing, that their kids were in ms or even hs, before they made the last payment. And those parents had been both successful and modest with spending.

It’s pie in the sky to use only simple math when considering massive debt. So what, if you don’t prefer warm weather? When options are limited, the smart recognize that.

No 17 year old can assume an 80k first job. There’s a lot of row to hoe to get there. And if one can’t think sensibly now, good chance more mistakes will be made.

There are also a number of young posters who find themselves facing probation or dismissal. That can sever the tie to the college, but not the debt. Think.

@ucbalumnus - when I said most families in the NE are not eligible for FA, it doesn’t mean their kids all go to 4 yr private colleges, a lot of them do end up at CC or their in-state public. I know at my kids’ school, 50% of students are full pay. As generous as Harvard is with FA, 45% of their students are full pay. I do not get your point about

You wrote previously in #128 “full pay (60-70K/year)”. Even the most expensive community college or in-state public university does not cost anywhere near that much.

The percentage of families who would be “full pay (60-70K/year)” is quite small, whether by FAFSA or college institutional EFC calculations for financial aid purposes, or actually being able to afford that. Very few families have the $200,000+ or so income for that.

MODERATOR’S NOTE:

As it is, this thread is about a nanosecond from being closed because it keeps goes around in circles, only to be brought back for a short period of time. Let’s not make it worse by parsing responses that are not the OP’s.

All in all, I definitely have learned a lot from this thread. I’m not going to let all your advice go to waste, I’m already re-reading everything so that I can start planning for the finances.

Note this is a correction: My family has received a perkins grant with an EFC close to what this student has.