<p>I was going to say “Aren’t there schools all over the US like this.” and tried to find Michigan’s equivalent and post about it.</p>
<p>I couldn’t. Eastern Michigan, Ferris State, Lake Superior State, Saginaw Valley State, and Oakland University all have 6-year graduation rates from about 35-40% and average ACT score around 20-22. </p>
<p>Then I decided those weren’t appropriate comparisons:</p>
<p>Black 6-Year Graduation Rate:
Eastern Michigan: 20.5%
Ferris State: 15.2%
Lake Superior State: **50%<a href=“higher%20than%20white”>/b</a> though blacks only make up 0.5% of the student body
Saginaw Valley State: 12.6%
Oakland: 23.7%
Chicago State: 11.6% - the source I have claims the University as a whole has only a 12.8% 6-Year graduation rate</p>
<p>Guess what everybody. It’s a race problem. Chicago State is 86.3% black, which is why the rate look so low compared to other universities. They don’t serve their student body any worse than many other schools would.</p>
<p>Ah, but those students aren’t paying their own tuition. How many Pell Grants? How much state grant money? Chicago State is serving (or perhaps the proper verb is preying on) a very impoverished population.</p>
It will be a while before we see the results of these programs.</p>
<p>This discussion is like comparing the Ohio Graduation Test pass rate between large high schools in a rich neighborhood school district and a poor neighborhood school district. The OGT is set up so that any section you don’t pass can be retaken again and again. “Percent passing the test” is an often quoted statistic.</p>
<p>District in rich neighborhood
900 seniors who are not eligible for free lunches. 100% pass the Graduation Test.
100 seniors who are eligible for free lunches. 10% pass the Graduation Test.
Overall rate of passing the Graduation Test: 91%</p>
<p>District in poor neighborhood
500 seniors who are not eligible for free lunches. 100% pass the Graduation Test.
500 seniors who are eligible for free lunches. 60% pass the Graduation Test.
Overall rate of passing the Graduation Test: 80%</p>
<p>The second school is better serving its students, but the scorecard item “Percent Passing the Ohio Graduation Test” shows the first school to be better. I live in an economically diverse suburb that is academically excellent and am often aggravated by comments on tables newspapers publish showing school districts and the “percent passing all sections of the OGT” I’m glad there are accredited, open admission colleges who give students who have not had great support and great opportunities in life another chance both at the admissions level as well as to complete degrees.</p>
<p>We do have to realize that some schools are out there to help students who have issues (learning, time, whatever). They accept students with low scores and try to get them to graduate. I don’t know if Chicago State is one of them but I think ISU may be. Some schools are more interested in getting tuition and fees than graduating students (I tend to think of that with For Profit schools which may be my own bias). Not every school can be targeted at 2100 SATs and 4.0 students. There would be many fewer college students attending.</p>
<p>ISU is actually the second-most selective of the 12 public universities in Illinois, based on ACT scores (22-26), marginally better than UI Chicago (21-26). (But those are very different schools, serving very different populations, with very different missions, so it’s not realistic to really compare them.) Together they form a “second tier” of state schools in Illinois, clearly behind UIUC and clearly ahead of the five rural directionals and UI Springfield, all of which have the 25th percentile ACT in the 19/20 range - although each of those schools has areas in which it excels. CSU and Northeastern Illinois, the two in-city publics, clearly bring up the rear - although as you said, they do perform a useful service to the populations they serve. (The 12th public, Governors State, is an upper division only school.)</p>
<p>I’ve lived in the Chicago suburbs for 17 years and also had never heard of Chicago State. I learn something new on CC every day.</p>
<p>I agree with MM2Kids - “I’m glad there are accredited, open admission colleges who give students who have not had great support and great opportunities in life another chance both at the admissions level as well as to complete degrees.” Hopefully Chicago State’s implementation of an early alert system will be successful.</p>
<p>^ @teriwitt, Except that the government of the state is controlled by Chicago politicians (Mike Madigan, John Cullerton, Pat Quinn et al) and has been for many years. Nothing gets done in this state that the Chicago machine opposes.</p>
<p>Food for thought for those that think acceptance % has a strong negative correlation with quality and prestige.</p>
<hr>
<p>“I shudder to think of the profiles of those who were not accepted.”</p>
<p>Don’t leap to any conclusions about those who weren’t accepted. Maybe the Tufts Syndrome is alive and well on the South Side, and those rejected are now at Northwestern and U of Chicago. [ Maybe I’m spending too much time on CC ? ]</p>
<p>What a pity, too. NEIU is a pleasant little school in a nice neighborhood. I used to live across the street from campus and would go walking there at night. Its numbers may be Chicago-State-like, but it has so much more potential.</p>
<p>As for “Harvard of the Midwest,” I’d give that to the U of Chicago, with Washington U, Michigan, Northwestern, and Notre Dame as runners-up.</p>
<p>When a school has a mission of “access,” lower stat students are accepted. If the school has really good programs in place to address academic shortcomings, it theoretically can work. In reality, I am not sure how many schools that are similar to Chicago State are successfully achieving their goals of providing a quality education for their students. </p>
<p>My concern is that students are borrowing to go to schools like this. If they are not successful, they end up owing money with nothing to show for it. I believe that the community colleges should be the entree school for students who will struggle, as they are better equipped for remediation & will provide it at a lower cost. </p>
<p>I am all for access to college, but the degree must mean something. A student who lacks basic skills in reading, writing, and 'rithmetic should receive remediation before moving on to a four year university situation. Just my two cents.</p>
<p>I once taught at the Community College of Philadelphia. Complete open admission to all graduates of Philadelphia high schools. All students had to take a writing exam for placement (which I graded - 5,000 per term!) The average student tested out at the 7th grade level; the lowest at the 2nd grade level. We hoped to get all students up to 11th grade level before graduation - which could mean years of remedial work.</p>
<p>I used to teach the last course in critical thinking before students could move on to a four-year institution. Most students were older than I was. Every term, I had 2, and sometimes 3, students who moved on to Penn or other Ivy League institutions. They were usually brighter than the majority of students I taught at the University of Chicago - they just suffered from poor preparation.</p>
<p>Oh, and by the way - I was a better teacher at the Community College of Philadelphia than I was at UChicago. First of all, I had more experience. More importantly, every student - regardless of their academic level - knew why s/he was there.</p>
<p>This just goes to show you that some of our state colleges need to be closed. I have a few in my state that suck up aid and funds too.<br>
Why are we paying more than triple to send them to this university over a community college? These kids are not remotely ready for a real university. They didn’t even score high enough on standard test to be even average high school students. It is not the responsibility of universities to teach kids what they should have learned in high school. I believe a community college is much more capable of bridging the gap between what they are capable of doing and what is expected at college. </p>
<p>This universities are not much better than the for profit colleges.</p>
<p>According to CSUs website, they are primarily a transfer institution. So it would seem that most of their students do start at a CC. </p>
<p>It also appears that the new administration is making some changes that are moving the institution in the right direction. The 25-75% ACT apparently for those who do get admitted as freshmen has improved, to 18-20 from 16-18. The six-year graduation rate is now 21%, up from 14%. Still lousy, but some things take time.</p>
<p>annasdad-- The question is how do those students at transfer institutions do when (and if) they transfer. Chicago State students 1) have great difficulty transferring and 2) have serious academic problems when they do transfer. </p>
<p>The criticism is not for the <em>type</em> of institution, but for the institution itself.</p>
<p>As I interpret what their website says, they primarily serve students who transfer it, presumably mostly from the City Colleges of Chicago (ie community colleges). </p>