not smart enough for engineering?

[boneh3ad]

<p>

@EngineerHead

I never claimed my major was hardest.

</p>

<p>He never said you did.</p>

<p>

@EngineerHead

However, numerous mathematicians across different societies developed the exact same individual concepts, such as integration, utilizing different or similar routes in validating their methodology. As the world “got smaller” these mathematicians realized they weren’t the only ones to have figured this out. Then you compare it to Einstein’s concept of mass-energy equivalence and his development of E=mc^2, a concept that was not discovered until one man with an outrageous IQ was finally born. And then, not to mention, a concept of which wasn’t even accepted until years after this guy died, simply because it was so complicated that no one knew how to understand it and therefore accept it as correct.

</p>

<p>And yet the concept of integration took many generations to perfect, whereas relativity took one man less than his own lifetime. Besides, comparing basic math math to relatively advanced physics says nothing about engineering majors.</p>

<p>Furthermore, I will claim that a person such as yourself is not qualified to make such claims until they have actually been to college. You haven’t even started yet, and yet you have made almost 300 posts in less than a month acting like the authoritative source on all things educational. You went into the medical forum and told some kid that as a doctor she won’t even be aware of the side effects or pharmacokinetics of new drugs she would prescribe, which is patently false. You claimed that by 18, a person should already know what they want to do with their life, another ludicrous statement.</p>

<p>The question is, you haven’t even started college yet, so how can you be an expert about all this stuff? You very well may be an incredibly intelligent individual, but intelligence is almost never a substitute for experience, and quite frankly, you just don’t have it yet.</p>

[MaineLonghorn]

<p>“Hire a teenager while he still knows everything” seems applicable here.</p>

[EngineerHead]

<p>

You went into the medical forum and told some kid that as a doctor she won’t even be aware of the side effects or pharmacokinetics of new drugs she would prescribe, which is patently false. You claimed that by 18, a person should already know what they want to do with their life, another ludicrous statement.

COMPLETELY FALSE! Why are you ridiculing me?? You must recheck your sources. I never told a kid ANYthing like that, as well, I never claimed that by 18 a person should already know what they want to do with his life! You’re being completely ludicrous. Why must you begin pointing fingers, I’m not pointing any at you and I still am not - I wish people would just debate to debate and not get so caught up in emotions and arguing. Anyway, if you’re going to start pointing fingers, you need to make sure you read carefully so that you know the facts well and not begin drawing assumptions. I’m tired of people making assumptions on this website.</p>

<p>

The question is, you haven’t even started college yet

False, boneh3ad, I have started college.</p>

<p>I’m not here to argue and pi.ss people off, why are you getting offended? Anyway, I know he didn’t say that I claimed my major to be the hardest, and I KNEW someone was going to try to be meticulous in pointing that out. Why play dumb and ignore the obvious, though?</p>

<p>I agree, I don’t have enough experience to speak on the example that I, myself, brought up, and so I should not have brought it up in the first place. However, I was solely speaking from the standpoint that there are subjects that are harder than others, and there are. I can’t tell if you’re trying to argue the opposite solely to play devil’s advocate, or that you truly believe no subject is any harder than another subject, but I find it hard to believe that you really believe that! I’m not trying to be rude in any way, why are you taking it as I am…</p>

[boneh3ad]

<p>Taken from post #6:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/careers-medicine/928467-how-can-i-deal-ethical-aspects-working-medicine-please-help.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/careers-medicine/928467-how-can-i-deal-ethical-aspects-working-medicine-please-help.html&lt;/a&gt;

@EngineerHead

As an already employed physician, you wouldn’t necessarily know how a certain medication was tested for stability/safety/side effects unless you chose to dive into the specific med and followed its trails back to its origins.

</p>

<p>Taken from post #74:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/929324-plan-b-skip-college-new-york-times-5.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/929324-plan-b-skip-college-new-york-times-5.html&lt;/a&gt;

@EngineerHead

Therefore, if due to their lack of effort in taking life seriously they are still switching majors as a junior, I have nothing to feel but sorrow and pity for their arrogance. By 18, students can easily, yes I did say easily, figure out what types of jobs are suitable to them and fit their personality through simple research.

</p>

<p>And finally, dated 5-14-10 from the conversation taking place on your own profile (though admittedly this quote is from the other guy):

@EngineerHead

Heading to VTech here, see you in 2 years when we start our major courses

</p>

<p>So from these three quotes, I gather the following: You think physicians/surgeons don’t understand the drugs they prescribe (they do), you think that any average 18 year old is by definition mature enough to know exactly the kinds of jobs he would want (only a fraction fall into this category) and you are going to Virginia Tech and you start this fall (you haven’t started college yet). If there is some other way to interpret these statements in the contexts they were given, by all means enlighten me, but they seem pretty obvious to me.</p>

<p>And to address the rest of your post, I am not peeved or offended, I merely claimed your were wrong. I am not here just to pick a fight or to play devil’s advocate for the other side of the argument, I am here to offer as unbiased an opinion and advice as I can so as to help out people who come to this site for advice. I looked into the last couple posts of yours in order to get a context for who I was talking to, and uncovered a pattern of questionable advice, so I addressed it.</p>

<p>I truly believe that one major is not innately harder than another and that it is all a function of the individual. Different people have different interests and different strengths, and as much as you want to argue that some majors are harder, it would be nearly impossible (to the point where I cannot currently think of a way to do it) to get objective measures of program difficulty. GPA doesn’t really matter because it varies so wildly based on so many things other than the difficulty. Peoples’ opinions don’t cut it because they are 100% subjective. There really is no honestly objective measure of difficulty.</p>

<p>It isn’t that you are rude. That isn’t what prompted the response. It is the matter-of-fact way in which you announce the “facts” in your post. Ordinarily, I would just disagree and offer evidence, but when doing the aforementioned check of your last few posts for a background, I found it to be a pattern so I figured it warranted a more thorough response. With any luck, you would actually see what I was talking about. If you have limited experience in an area you need to either qualify your statements with the fact that you have limited experience or just not offer the advice, otherwise some of the kids on this forum just assume you are speaking from the position of an expert and can easily be misled. Never underestimate how quick young students are to just take a forum post as fact these days. Heck, even some of my own colleagues with degrees don’t do nearly enough fact checking.</p>

[EngineerHead]

<p>I really would analyze all these for you so that you understood them better, but I’ll give you the opportunity of simply rereading the exact things that you have quoted. If you reread the exact quotes you have posted here, YOU WILL SEE that everything you have assumed is wrong. Read, and you will notice it says nothing about “you won’t know the side effects of a drug.” Read, and you will notice it says nothing about “by 18, you should know what you want to do with your life.” As for entering college part, if you want to read so much into my previous posts, then read some more! Maybe you’ll find out the facts underneath it all. Just because I don’t care to explain myself doesn’t mean I’m lying - I have started college.</p>

<p>

You think physicians/surgeons don’t understand the drugs they prescribe (they do), you think that any average 18 year old is by definition mature enough to know exactly the kinds of jobs he would want (only a fraction fall into this category) and you are going to Virginia Tech and you start this fall (you haven’t started college yet). If there is some other way to interpret these statements in the contexts they were given, by all means enlighten me, but they seem pretty obvious to me.

• I do not think physicians don’t understand the drugs they prescribe. All the classes they take in medical school says otherwise, why would I refute that? Read carefully
• I have started college already.
  If after rereading the 2 quotes that you are drawing assumptions from you still say that what you’re saying is what I think, then I will elaborate for you, but I really don’t think I need to for you to realize what it is I’m saying. It’s possible you’re skimming too fast and not being meticulous about my word choice. As for college you can stalk my previous posts to find out the truth, or you can take my word - I have started college for the 100th time.</p>

<p>

If you have limited experience in an area you need to either qualify your statements with the fact that you have limited experience or just not offer the advice, otherwise some of the kids on this forum just assume you are speaking from the position of an expert and can easily be misled.

Point taken. I do do this most of the times, sometimes I just type and rant without regards.</p>

[EngineerHead]

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/multiple-degree-programs/928366-how-many-majors-2.html#post1064897027[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/multiple-degree-programs/928366-how-many-majors-2.html#post1064897027&lt;/a&gt;

johnstoops:
*I definitely agree that engineering is probably the hardest major in college.

<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/930584-what-makes-so-hard-pre-med-engineering-major.html#post1064903597[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/930584-what-makes-so-hard-pre-med-engineering-major.html#post1064903597&lt;/a&gt;

mcnell:
engineering is often one of the more difficult undergraduate majors.

MiamiDAP:
it is much harder to achieve [high GPA’s] in any engineering major as all of them are more challenging at ANY college than any other majors. There is simply no comparison.

<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/923817-engineering-gpa-med-school.html#post1064897384[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/923817-engineering-gpa-med-school.html#post1064897384&lt;/a&gt;

Verbatim from an Undergraduate’s Chemical Engineering Page:
“…even if they opted for a more difficult undergraduate major.”

</p>

<p>All of these comments have one theme in common: majors have varying difficulty levels. Would you care to point these fellas in the right direction as you have done me?</p>

[AuburnMathTutor]

<p>A delusion is a delusion regardless of the number of people subscribing to it. Yes, even five people.</p>

[EngineerHead]

<p>I know, that’s why I was telling “you” to point these guys in the right direction. </p>

<p>Of course, even though business majors are always out partying yet still maintain A’s while physics majors are always in their dorms studying in order to maintain their A’s means absolutely nothing. Man, even the university that has been quoted is wrong! What has America’s education come to…</p>

[hadsed]

<p>Everyone knows people are different. Even the greatest physicists (to elaborate on a given example), like Einstein, weren’t insane mathematicians. Bohr had something over Einstein, Feynman had something over Heisenberg, etc. That is why to most people electrical engineering would be harder because of the heavy mathematics involved, and to those who may think electrical is easy they may find that mechanical is tougher because it requires more visualization.</p>

<p>EngineerHead, there’s no need to go that far. No one will disagree that all majors are of the same difficulty, but a lot of science majors and engineering majors have differing qualities, as I described in the previous paragraph that make them more difficult to some people or even most people (most people aren’t so hot with math), that make them seem more difficult to people who aren’t oriented in that sort of science or engineering. That is why society has specialization.</p>

[EngineerHead]

<p>I agree with this (that people are different, different subjects = different qualities, etc.), however I don’t agree with the analysis. My personal analysis on this is not that it means that no major is harder than another, IMO, this simply means that certain subjects are more intriguing to learn than others to a certain individual. And this analysis is MUCH better applied to your electrical vs. mechanical engineering comparison than is the analysis that it’s strictly due to students having different personalities. These two are similar, however the former is a further analysis of the latter.</p>

<p>It’s like reading - if it’s an interesting topic, it’s VERY easy to stay focused and completely comprehend what is being written. However, if it’s a boring topic, you have to either re-read what you have already read over and over, OR you have to force yourself to “become interested” in the topic so that you can maintain focus and understand what you are reading.</p>

<p>To step outside this partially narrow thought, we can compare completely different areas of study. If one is not harder than another, then why is more work required to be put in to maintain the exact same grade for an engineering degree than a business degree? Why can I get A’s in my liberal arts classes (take for example, a business class) and only throw in 15 hours of studying a week, while I must throw in 40 hours of studying a week to maintain the same A for my engineering classes? It just doesn’t make sense.</p>

<p>The analysis that one is not harder than another makes much more sense if the only factor was that everyone has an individual personality, and every subject has its own particular qualities. However, the analysis accounts for more than this, and when accounting for the amount of work required in one vs. another, I would say that it debunks this analysis. It doesn’t necessarily make my analysis correct, but it makes it a better/more defined analysis (IMO).</p>

<hr>

<p>As for no need to go that far, exactly how far am I going? I don’t see myself as crossing any lines… I’m simply providing my thoughts, hoping someone else will provide their’s to compound mine or refute mine.</p>

<hr>

<p>

No one will disagree that all majors are of the same difficulty

Needless to say, but this is false. The university quoted above would like to disagree with this (tip: don’t attend this university… they don’t know what they’re talking about).</p>

[Enginox]

<p>The vast majority of professions do not require the individual to be exceptionally “smart” in order to perform well in them. Certainly, some individuals possess more ability than others within certain fields but this is expected since we humans are very diverse (tall, short, darker, lighter, etc).</p>

<p>What kind of person should become an engineer? My opinion is anyone that possesses satisfactory understanding of Algebra, is willing to invest significant amounts of time into learning, and possesses decent logical thinking skills.</p>

<p>When it comes to the difficulty of any engineering branch, there are many factors that affect “difficulty;” an important one is the individual while another factor is how “polished” the branch is. In other words, how much work has been done in a specific branch; civil engineering may be considered “easy” but that’s thanks to the blood, sweat, and tears of thousands of civil engineers throughout history poured into our collective knowledge; in contrast, nuclear engineering might seem “harder” but that’s because the profession is slightly over 50 years old; there’s still more work to be done.</p>

<p>Personally, I find chemical and electrical engineering to be “easier” relative to mechanical or civil engineering perhaps because I’m more inclined to abstract thinking.</p>

[hadsed]

<p>EngineerHead, you are confusing our opinion (the opinions of engineers and scientists) with other people’s opinions. Let’s stick with the former, since that’s what matters here.</p>

<p>As for not agreeing with the analysis, I don’t see how you could disagree at all. Have you never met a kid with Asperger’s? Some have insane mathematical abilities, some with major artistic and musical talent, but most lack a lot of social skills. This is an extreme example, but still shows how people can be different at different things. To a mathematical genius, doing triple integrals mentally is not a problem at all, but something like psychology or sketching could be more difficult to learn for them. This is somewhat how people are. Yes most students are more well-rounded than the student I was describing before, but the same concepts apply.</p>

<p>Interests do have an affect, but to some people some things simply come easier. Technology, science and mathematics couldn’t have been revolutionized the way it has been by people who are simply interested in it. You simply cannot say that people are better at some things than others just because they like it… sorry, but that just isn’t reasonable.</p>

[EngineerHead]

<p>

EngineerHead, you are confusing our opinion (the opinions of engineers and scientists) with other people’s opinions. Let’s stick with the former, since that’s what matters here.

I am not. My understanding of 15 hours a week for a business degree is not from personal experience, but rather from many of my peers who study this field - some math heads (were with me in my HS math classes), some readers, some artistic, some musical. My understanding of 40 hours a week is from personal experience and countless opinions of fellow classmates - some doing it for money and others because they enjoy it.</p>

<p>

Have you never met a kid with Asperger’s?

I was not aware that this was common. However, this is not an “extreme example.” It is not even an example; it is an exception that is irrelevant and impertinent. Asperger syndrome is a disorder, you cannot compare apples with oranges.</p>

<p>

Technology, science and mathematics couldn’t have been revolutionized the way it has been by people who are simply interested in it.

Oh, but I bet to differ! I suppose Benjamin Franklin was in no way being uberly-curious and satisfying his interest when he electrocuted himself flying that kite during the thunderstorm?</p>

[hadsed]

<p>

Oh, but I bet to differ! I suppose Benjamin Franklin was in no way being uberly-curious and satisfying his interest when he electrocuted himself flying that kite during the thunderstorm?

This is foolish. You’re saying he happened to stumble upon a kite with a key and it electrocuted him and that is how he discovered static electricity and such? You must be out of your mind.</p>

<p>You don’t have to have met a person with Asperger’s, all you have to do is know about them and what sort of behavior they exhibit. I use it as an example because that is the way people are, and if you think that everyone is equally good at everything then I refuse to even argue because that is absurd.</p>

[EngineerHead]

<p>

Oh, but I bet to differ! I suppose Benjamin Franklin was in no way being uberly-curious and satisfying his interest when he electrocuted himself flying that kite during the thunderstorm?

This is foolish. You’re saying he happened to stumble upon a kite with a key and it electrocuted him and that is how he discovered static electricity and such? You must be out of your mind.

This alone shows exactly how foolish you are. With this single, simple statement alone, I find it useless and unreasonable to debate with you.</p>

[boneh3ad]

<p>As mug as I would love to go to all those threads and set people straight, I simply don’t have the motivation or time. I have a weddin to plan and a million other things to do so instick to the engineering, UIUC and TAMU forums.</p>

<p>For the record, it hasn’t even been proven that Ben Franklin actually did the kite experiment. It is apocryphal. He simply had a intense interest in investigating the world and inventing things with no formal training. There are numerous instances across history of ordinary people doing engineering and inventing in their own back yard or basement without formal training.</p>

<p>Here is another thought. While I will argue to the end on behalf of the idea that no major is innately harder than another, I will freely admit that some take much more dedication to master. The subject of business is not necessarily easy, it just doesn’t require as many hours per week to master. When you get into the more niche areas of business like finance, you see it begin to approah engineering as far as the level of dedication required, while getting a bachelors in business administration is more like a taste of everyhing and thus doesn’t take quite the dedication. That may seem like it translates to difficulty of material, bur really it is more correctly translated to the depth of the field.</p>

[boneh3ad]

<p>Sorry, “as much”, it’s been a long day of banquet hall touring and my iPhone is clumsy.</p>

[hayz650]

<p>Hadsed, when you talk about people with Asperger’s, you make them sound like animals, it’s kind of insulting.</p>

[hayz650]

<p>Also, I believe that people have the ability to learn anything they want to learn, granted, it may take more time for someone to learn a concept, but anyone can do it. It is unrealistic for some people to go into engineering because it would take them way too long to understand something that the rest of the class does, but if there was the time, anyone could learn anything. I liked the Benjamin Franklin reference, more relevant than the Aspergers example.</p>

[hadsed]

<p>It was clearly not meant to be offensive, can’t really see why you would take it so personally.</p>