I’d love to tap the wisdom of this group to help settle a decision my D22 needs to make before school starts.
Over the summer she decided she wants 6 classes (instead of 7) and wants to drop honors French (the final French class offered by her public high school—there is no non-honors French offered). She has never enjoyed French class and and wants to keep her AP Art History elective instead.
She has a rigorous class load and is a stellar, straight A student. Here is her total senior year line up:
AP Lit
AP Chemistry
AP Economics
AP Art History
AP Calculus AB
Advanced Journalism (she is the News editor)
Honors French (this is year 4 of French)
She has been looking forward to AP Economics since her sophomore year, and the AP Art History class is beloved universally because of the teacher.
She is looking at some super competitive colleges (including a couple reach Ivies in addition to a well-balanced list she’s made with her counselor). I know the answer is probably: don’t drop French. But would love to hear from those who have been there. I just don’t want her to look back and wonder if it would have made a difference in any of the outcomes. Her counselor has gone back and forth in her opinion—so would value more real life input.
D is undecided on a major but wants to study political science, communication, English, psychology, history or economics.
What year of French did she have junior year? If 4, there is no problem at all.
If year 3, it’s probably OK and any college admission decision would likely not come down to 3 vs 4 years of FL. I would ask the HS GC if they are going to give her the most rigorous rating on the common app counselor form if there is no FL senior year.
One thing to keep in mind, on top of @Mwfan1921 's excellent advice, is that with very few exceptions, every top college will have a foreign language requirement to graduate. In theory, the more one takes in HS, the fewer one needs in college. And even if attending college on a free ride, taking a foreign language class taught by a TA vs a course taught by a world-renowned professor may not be the best use of one,'s limited resources.
Just FYI…some HS GCs don’t fill out that rigor rating question anymore…its use seems to be decreasing, similar to the decline in schools that still do class ranking. Regardless, something to ask!
Agree with @Mwfan1921 here, it’s not going to come down to 3 vs 4 years of a language. Looking at the rest of her schedule, it certainly shows rigor! the Adv Journalism class also shows her complements her EC work nicely which to me is a plus.
My daughter had two years of Chinese. It’s all the school offered. The intent was more but there was no demand. It did not hurt her. She was turned down where we thought and accepted where we thought - except one school - Washington & Lee that unexpectedly offered admission. Many kids take 1-2 classes off senior year without an issue as long as they meet the college’s requirement for classes taken (like 2 years or 3 years of language).
Your daughter’s schedule is off the charts rigorous. They don’t need to look at a rigor level for her. It’s more the schools that don’t offer enough.
Just curious - usually when I see Econ I see Gov because each is one semester. In my daughter’s school, they both last a year alternating days. Did she not take Gov?
With a 4.0, she’ll have her pick of top schools and free/near free schools such as Arizona and Alabama - which attract many like your daughter.
Good luck to her. No clue what “size school” she’s looking at or what type campus she likes/loves - but W&L is one of the best places to combine journalism and poli sci. For a mid size school, Syracuse and Northwestern and UNC as well.
AP Economics is usually, but not always, a year-long course encompassing both micro and macro.
Where a HS offers the econ/gov combo, the econ is usually just micro. And the combo is offered, again usually, because the state mandates personal finance and US government to graduate.
interesting. it didn’t work for my daughter - she got a 2 on the econ. 3 on the gov. all her other APs (7 more) were 4 and 5. She struggled with it - plus her econ teacher was at home while the kids were in the classroom. so he taught over zoom to the class.
Thank you for that great perspective. She does have rigor in spades. She loves school… always has (unlike mom, ha!). She also works really hard. She took AP Gov online this summer so she would have space for the full year of Econ (micro and macro).
She loves Northwestern!she definitely has a preference for midsize or large schools … Columbia, BU, Tufts, USC, UPenn are some her reach favorites. She is also a very liberal, gay theater kid who plays guitar and loves a good cause. (So we also want a welcoming, artsy place where she can can feel at home)
I would reiterate checking on the language requirements at the colleges she is interested in. And how/if a student can test out of the language requirement.
All of the schools my daughter applied to had a foreign language requirement to show through either the incoming student placement test, an AP score of 5 (which would fulfill the 1st year of college level language), or 1-2 college level years of language instruction.
My daughter had a 5 on her AP foreign language exam, and placed into the beginning of 3rd year college level language classes (she is a bit of a polyglot, currently learning her 4th language). Her roommate placed out of the 1st semester of foreign language at the college level, struggled through the 2nd semester of that foreign language (it goes fast in college) and still has two semesters required to meet college graduation requirements; you have to show proficiency through intermediate at their school. Some schools only require showing proficiency through beginner.
So check those requirements to make sure there won’t be any rude surprises when it comes to foreign language. Especially if she doesn’t like foreign language classes.
I’d at Syracuse too - you’ll get merit but you have Newhouse school, extremely LGBTQ friendly, and strong in poli sci - she’d dual (if she did poli sci) with the Maxwell School, which is #1 in public affairs, ahead of Harvard. Like every college, they have DC opportunities.
Worth a look anyway.
You never asked - but - if you’re on the CC all day, you need a life, so i threw it out there
My kids are also much brighter than I was - but they don’t love school as much as your daughter. They’re just good at it.
I don’t know if your child is interested in any of the highly selective LACs, but there are some who explicitly “highly recommend” a 4th year of foreign language. That means if it’s an option for you, they expect you to take it.
FWIW, all the kids I know who were accepted to these schools had the 4th year of language. My D21, on the other hand, who was an otherwise strong candidate and seemingly good fit, was rejected by Vassar and Wesleyan after opting out of the 4th year (with an otherwise rigorous schedule senior year.) I can’t help but wonder if she was passed over for a similar candidate who had that 4th year. I’d be curious to hear from any applicants who were accepted to schools such as these (including Brown, Bowdoin, Barnard, Dartmouth, Princeton, etc.) without the 4th year of foreign language…
Well…I just have to add…taking foreign language at our high school wasn’t exactly a top notch experience. My kids both completed honors Spanish four in tenth grade. The one who was required to take a foreign language in college said she learned more in ONE college term than In all the years of Spanish (our district starts Spanish in 4th grade).
In terms of college courses…my kid could have placed out of FL in college by taking the CLEP test (which she tried….but like I said…her before college FL instruction just didn’t have the breadth she needed to get a passing score on the CLEP test. But check that too…at colleges your kid is applying to…it might be an option. Some colleges also do a FL placement test to determine where you start. And sometimes you don’t need to complete the whole sequence.
Life is too short to give up an enriching art class with a “universally beloved” teacher, just to grind out a fourth year of uninspiring foreign language instruction that may or may not give you a tiny advantage over taking just three years. Sure, you may end up having to take French in college… but then again, you may actually love French in college. (My daughter ended up having to take one semester of French in college for exactly this reason… and ended up with French as a dual major and a semester in Paris. Where she studied art history.) Take the art history class; it’ll be fine.
Consider that having to return to foreign language study, after being away from it for a full year, is going to be harder if she has to fulfill a language requirement. My d balked at taking AP French, I demanded it, given that her top choices of Princeton and UVA like AP foreign language. She took it, was admitted everywhere, and ended up spending the summer working for a French company in Southern France, much to her surprise. You never know.
We are the opposite of @roycroftmom . Our kids didn’t take FL in either 11th or 12th grade (but they had completed honors Spanish 4…even if they learned very little).
Our kids took culinary arts their senior year. And both also had a study hall for the first time in high school.
They both got accepted to the colleges of their choice. Neither applied to top 20 schools…but there are tons of excellent colleges out there who will welcome a student with 3 years of FL.
