Does anyone know how much being a Notre Dame legacy really helps?
I started a thread on this topic a few months ago:
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/university-notre-dame/2011235-nd-legacy.html#latest
I am legacy, and my daughter (admitted REA) is a double legacy. That said, she is very well qualified on her own merits. Being a legacy helps, but most legacy candidates are extremely competitive applicants.
At every level in the application pool, being a legacy helps. It probably doubles one’s chances. But having said that, many many many qualified legacies are not admitted. It’s just flat out difficult to get into ND. No guarantees. Not even a 7 figure contribution.
The link that Libby1901 provided should be very helpful, this issue was discussed at length in a thread not long ago. The university has admitted that – as with many top schools – being a legacy does help. I would caution you about believing that it doubles your chances, I’m not sure there’s any proof that it helps to that extent and I think it’s important for your own sake to keep perspective when waiting for acceptances. But it is certainly something in your favor because ND values family connections. They say in their Common Data Set that they consider legacy as an “important” factor in the application (which is the category where they rank the majority of the application factors they consider).
It is big at ND. Bigger than at most other top 20 schools. But you have to understand correctly what “big” means in the context of highly selective college admissions.
I think the other thread has the exact numbers, but ND still rejects 60% of legacy applicants IIRC. So the legacy glass is more than half empty. : (
But ND’s class is usually between 20-25% legacy students. Which is about double the legacy percentage you see at other top 20 schools!! : )
According to ND, about half the legacies would get in anyway. For those kids (let’s say the 35-36 ACT-ers as a shorthand), the legacy policy means that reach-ey ND becomes more of a match/safe school.
For the other half of the legacies (call them the 32-34 ACT kids), the policy greatly improves the kid’s chance of being picked (all things being equal) over other well-qualified 32-34 ACT kids who are non-legacies (and who apply to ND by the thousands). The chances in this band might actually be doubled. : ) But still could be below 50%. : (
Ok thank you all so much! I applied regular decision because I have a 32 ACT which is not very strong at ND and was nervous I would get rejected in the competitive REA pool. However, everything else about my application seems to fit ND standards. I have a 4.42 GPA, will have taken 9 APs all of high school and my lowest grade is an A on my transcript. I am on two varsity sports and captain of one of them and am the president on many, many clubs. Also, I have been working with a food pantry since freshman year and have a lot of volunteer work. I thought all my essays were very strong and really show that I want ND. My mom went there and I am hoping for the best!
That’s great that you’ve taken 9 APs. ND says the most important thing they look at on the application is the rigor of high school course load, so that will help you. That’s a nice list of ECs and good that you feel your essays were strong and ND focused:) Good luck to you!
I got in!!!
MGC – Congratulations! Great news!
I was thinking that you might be the exact kind of kid where legacy would make a difference.
You obviously are super well qualified for ND. Even a 32 ACT (your weak spot) is a great score – 98th percentile. But only at the 25th percentile for ND enrolled students. Given all the other great stuff you had on your application, the legacy tip was probably enough to cause the adcom to pick your app rather than a similar non-legacy one that might have had an extra point or two on the ACT score.
Which is how the legacy policy works. It only helps kids who are already very well qualified and may properly be seen as “just” a tie-breaker. But competitive admissions at a school like ND is a game that has a LOT of ties – ND sees thousands of kids with very strong and very similar credentials. So having the benefit of a tie-breaker can be very “big” in a particular case.
To pay-it-forward for the kids in the next cycle, can I suggest you come back here after all your other returns are in and post how you fared at your other highly competitive schools? When my kid was applying, I found the granular outcome descriptions extremely helpful in trying to make a plan.
Good luck.
@mgcollegetalk99 First of all, congrats on your acceptance to Notre Dame. That is fantastic.
On every metric you were competitive in the applicant pool, and on most metrics, you were probably close to or within the upper quartile of the pool. Your ACT of 32, while at ND’s 25th percentile, still put you just within the middle-50% range.
Candidates like you are where the legacy card can help. On the other legacy thread from a few months ago that someone linked earlier in this thread, I noted that the legacy admit rate for applicants who applied back in 2012 was almost 50%, and then that legacy admit rate had decreased to 43% for the applicants who applied in 2014. (So a 7% decline in the admit rate in 2 years!) Based on the overall decline in ND’s admissions rate over the past 4 admissions cycles, my rough math suggests the legacy admit rate is now sitting at about 38% or so. In fact, it might be slightly lower, but I really doubt it’s any higher.
Of the 38% who get admitted, one-half of those kids are highly-qualified by any measure, and Don Bishop in ND’s Enrollment Division is on record as saying those kids are among the most competitive in the applicant pool. I take that to mean the kids with 35-36 ACTs, 4.5-ish GPAs, great ECs, and essays that really show they “get” the mission of Notre Dame. The other half of the 38% of legacy applicants who get admitted are probably students like yourself. Qualified on just about every measure, with maybe an ACT score that is a point or two below the class median, or a GPA slightly below median, but otherwise checking the boxes on everything ND’s looking for. As northwesty said above, the legacy status may well have served as the slightest tiebreaker that tipped the scale in your favor between you and 5 other similarly-qualified applicants.
One thing I think folks forget is that ND is now at the point where somewhere around 62% of legacy applicants are being denied, and a decent number of them have stats well within ND’s middle-50% range if we’re to believe the stats posted by rejected legacy applicants. So congrats to you for using your essays to tell ND about yourself in a way that made them realize you were someone who really “gets” what ND’s all about.
@northwesty I got into Villanova Neuroscience program, Boston College, Northeastern, Providence College, Clemson University, University of Miami, University of Dayton, University of Maryland, University of Delaware, University of Georgia , rejected from UNC Chapel Hill, waitlisted from UVA, and still waiting to hear from Umich
@northwesty Any insights regarding the value of being a grandchild legacy? Is that considered a legacy at all, in general? Relatedly, when ND talks about “legacy”, does this mean undergraduate degrees? My D’s grandfather got his Masters and PhD from ND, and we’re curious if she should approach her application as if she’s a “legacy” or not.
Notre Dame considers a child whose parent (or step-parent) graduated from Notre Dame to be “legacy.” The parental degree earned from Notre Dame could be a BA/BS, or a graduate degree (MA, MS, Ph.D.) or professional degree (J.D., MBA).
Unfortunately, ND is very clear that grandparents do not count for “legacy” status at ND, which I believe it does at some other school’s like U Penn.
@SDCounty3Mom I believe ND considers an applying student as ‘legacy’ if and only if one of student’s parents received a degree (any degree) from the University. There are different consideration categories for ‘CSC families’ and children of ‘ND faculty and staff’.
We come from a long line of “legacy” family members. My son will be fourth generation to attend. When I called our regional counselor to see if he should apply rea I asked if it helped that he was a “double” legacy (both parents). She said the only thing that constitutes legacy is a parent. I think it’s definitely worth mentioning, but don’t think it would put her in the legacy pool. Good luck!
Agree with all the above. Every school has its own spin on who counts as a legacy, and how much boost a qualifying legacy gets.
At Penn, grandparents count. So do grad and professional degrees. But if you really want the legacy tip, Penn tells you to apply binding ED.
At Harvard, grandparents do not count. Grad and professional degrees do not count. Has to be mom/dad with an undergrad degree.
ND is officially parents, any ND degree, do not have to apply REA. Although I’m sure REA helps for the legacy kids who have REA level stats.
But end of the day, ND is interested in qualified kids who get ND and who are likely to enroll at ND if accepted. So it is always a good idea for the kid to show interest and establish a relationship with the admission rep. REA or not is a frequent conversation topic, and mentioning grandpa’s connections in conversation and/or essays can’t hurt.
@parent365 @hpcsa @aspen22 @northwesty Thank you all! My D '19 has really locked onto ND as her first choice, so I’m trying to gather as much info as possible at this stage of the game. Here’s a question that’s a bit out-there…so being a CSC family is a benefit. Any point in mentioning a family connection to another Catholic order? (Priest of the Congregation of the Most Holy Redeemer, CSsR, and Sister of Mercy, RSM). Probably could just be used to speak to her motivation for desiring the Catholic traditions and service values of the ND family…? I see from the CDS that religious commitment/involvement is “considered”…do you think family history would be an example of this?
@SDCounty3Mom Yes, absolutely! In fact, it is a very important part of your daughter’s application to do everything she can to emphasize and back up with facts her strong conviction that she is a unique fit at Notre Dame and to emphasize how she will be able to effectively contribute to the Notre Dame community. You seem very much to be on the right track. Very best of luck and all success!
@SDCounty3Mom “CSC” = Congregatio a Sancte Cruce (latin for Congregation of Holy Cross). I don’t know how beneficial it is to mention family connection to other religious orders. I do know that at the admitted students event for REA students that my son attended in Feb, I did hear a couple of good-natured jokes about “those Jesuit schools,” which was clearly a reference to BC and/or G’town, although not specifically stated. I also saw a post on this website from a parent who posted several years ago whose family was a direct descendant of some major founding priest of the Holy Cross order. That parent’s son did not get admitted, so just not sure how critical it would be to mention other orders.
More beneficial would be the last point you made: focus on her (your daughter’s) motivation for desiring a faith-based education and the service values she brings to the table. Focus on her religious commitment involvement, not on her extended family’s history of service. My son is not Catholic, but he spoke of the impact of faith in his life, and those aspects of ND that appealed to him as someone who values faith. My gut feeling is that ND wants to know what YOU (the applicant) are going to do to really use the resources available to you at ND and then take what you learn at ND to better the world. The whole “be a force for good” theme is big at ND, but it’s got to be 100% genuine and not come off as just regurgitating to ND what they want to hear.
My understanding is that nieces and nephews of Holy Cross priests get consideration similar (not sure if exact) to legacy kids. But just niece/nephew, which would also be “one generation” away from them, which I think makes sense compared to sons/daughters for “legacy”. Also, I remember when my daughter applied for class of 2021, there was definitely a spot in the application to input information for grandparents who attended (name and grad year), because I remember her putting my father in law’s info. I’m not saying it counts as a “legacy”, because my understanding is also that legacy is parents only. But maybe they take family connection into account in some small way. You never know and at least the spot is there for you to enter the information.
Other than that, my daughter is third generation, as my husband and his dad also attended. And I agree 100% with everything @parent365 said about being a force for good and building a case for what you bring to the table, and how you will use the resources available there. That is really key I think more than anything else (except maybe rigor of classes, which I know they also look very closely at). Good luck to you, it’s an exciting road ahead!