<p>Do we have to go over this again? Alright, we shall. ND IS NOT A GREAT RESEARCH UNIVERSITY YET. Our grad school is not that great right now, hence why we do not have as much research. This does NOT influence the quality of undergraduate education, which is what we are worrying about here. </p>
<p>Do you consider all of the LACs to be crap, because I am pretty sure they will be low on your scale. </p>
<p>Given the weak graduate school, it is actually a blessing in disguise for undergraduates. I bet that there are more research opportunities for undergrads here than there are at those other schools. Here is an example: I ran my honors thesis in a ND lab using 6 research assistants and paid for it using a ND research grant. How many people from other boards can say that? How many are given that opportunity. I am not saying this to say I am great, I am saying this to show that I am BLESSED to be here.</p>
<p>That sounds like a great opportunity. But I would be careful before knocking the other schools given the astoundingly high rates at which their graduates are placed into the top post-graduate programs like the NSF Fellowships, leading graduate schools, laboratories and research firms. If you look at that data, ND does pretty well but it doesn't place as many into the top fellowships/programs as the HYPMC schools. Actually it has fewer than U of Arizona's undergrad prog.</p>
<p>And yes, there are excellent LACs - the top few for undergraduate science, namely Harvey Mudd, Williams, Pomona, Wellesley, Wesleyan, and in particular, Swarthmore each produce just about as many NSF/NIH fellows, etc., if not more, per capita as the HYPMC caliber schools.</p>
<p>All my post above was for was to point out the UA is considered to be a top university.</p>
<p>You have got to realize that this is the Notre Dame thread. The people on here like Notre Dame. If you go the the Yale thread, you will find people who like Yale...just like you.</p>
<p>University of Arizona has a lot more undergrads. Do you really think that is a fair comparison?</p>
<p>As for NSF Fellowships, I still have qualms about using factors like that. For instance, I did not qualify because I wanted to study clinical psychology, which would enable me to either work as a therapist or as a researcher and NSF will only work for research-only doctorates. I am still going to a PhD program next year and am fully funded (tuition waiver + stipend) but yet I am not counted. Also, ND has a remarkable number of students who do service before going to graduate school, are they counted? Probably not since they didn't go straight through. </p>
<p>All I am saying is it may not be the best indicator. Also, you can get into top schools from ND. I am very happy with my program and I know several people going to Harvard Law and other ridiculous schools next year!</p>
<p>Yes, they are counted regardless of how many years pass between the undergraduate and graduate program. Also, I agree that you can get into top schools from ND and agree that comparing with U of A must take into account that U of A has more than 3 times as many undergraduates.</p>
<p>Also, according to US News (I don't like their rankings, but let's use it) Arizona is ranked 98th. This is clearly up there with Duke.</p>
<p>The good news is that Saint Louis University is ranked higher, so for all of you SLU applicants, if Arizona is as good as Duke, and SLU is ranked higher than Arizona, then it must also be as good as Duke, right? Don't get me wrong, I have lots of respect for SLU, but seriously, here are some of the schools ranked above Arizona (I can't wait for PosterX's reply, though don't get me wrong, these are not bad schools...they just aren't Duke IMO)...</p>
<p>University of Kansas
University of Tulsa
University of Vermont
Clark University
Iowa State University
Marquette University
North Carolina State -Raleigh
UC-Santa Cruz (go Banana Slugs)
Fordham
Michigan State
BYU
SMU
Minnesota Twin-Cities
Iowa
Rutgers (they should have been Ivy, they got screwed)
Miami-Ohio
University of Pittsburgh
Yeshiva University</p>
<p>Enough, let me just say this....</p>
<p>There are 8 University of California schools ranked higher than Arizona! Granted, the UC system is great, but 8? There are only 10 of them! Clearly Arizona is an elite.</p>
<p>^^^ Hahaha... nice one irish. And my advice would be to ignore posterX - he is a pathetic excuse for a Yalie (if he even is one) and he has no qualms about distorting facts and even outright fibbing. Anything to bring Yale up and/or put other schools down.</p>
<p>Because of all the early action/single choice stuff schools require these days, with early acceptance rates exponentially higher than regular decision, I’ve been researching a few of the ivies and how they stack up against ND. Well I was planning on starting a thread asking about the pros and cons of notre dame and yale because most of what I stumbled upon was a bit dated, but after reading through this thread and picking up on the intangibles that were explained (and even demonstrated) in this thread as opposed to the stubborn resistance of PosterX, I think I have a better understanding of why ND is truly special!</p>
<p>I know this is an old thread, just had to say thanks guys! especially you Irish68178 and notredamebrother!!</p>