NPR College Admissions Story

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<p>I don’t see how univeristies are treating its applicants (they aren’t customers) in this manner. They ask for your high school transcript, your standardized test scores, a list of your activities and honors, recommendations, and a personal statement. How is this ‘high-handed and arrogant’?</p>

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<p>How could a personal statement be otherwise? It’s about seeing something about the applicant beyond the grades, activities, test scores, etc. The recommendations are all about ‘the applicant, the applicant, the applicant’, at least to some extent. I guess you would eliminate these as well. </p>

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<p>Doesn’t the common application give six prompts, one of which is ‘pick a topic of your choice’?</p>

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<p>But it isn’t the college saying this, it’s the admissions counselor. A great deal of what you’re complaining about is the culture’s reaction to and obession about the process.</p>

<p>I agree, Int – Finnish-speaking left-handed oboe player? How rare is that? (She sounds like a great kid.) :)</p>

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<p>I don’t know about that, Lady D. The Airlines seem to be doing okay!</p>

<p>IntParent – I knew there had to be one! Pity I was off by just a little bit but geography was never my strong suit.</p>

<p>And that is the essence of marketing. Market yourself to the adcoms. This process selects the best marketers. In the end, the life is fair. Warren did not graduate from an Ivy school. I assume that he is happy.</p>

<p>they aren’t customers</p>

<p>Sure they are. They’re paying for a product; that makes them customers.</p>

<p>And over-paying ones at that!</p>

<p>It’s a lot like the health-care industry. We won’t be empowered until we realize that we’re customers. :)</p>

<p>*How could a personal statement be otherwise? *</p>

<p>Granted. But, like Mr. Ferguson, I’m questioning the whole point of a “personal statement.” I can guarantee that no one used “personal statements” to get into the medieval universities of Paris, Oxford, and Bologna. But those dudes did OK, IIRC.</p>

<p>Why does an admissions committee need to know my son’s thoughts, reactions, and innermost feelings? They’re admitting a student, not a candidate for the Jerry Springer show.</p>

<p>I guess I just don’t see why there should not at least be an option allowing more reticent students to write about something other than themselves. What’s the matter with options? Isn’t variety the spice of life and all that?</p>

<p>LOL, Novelisto, you have a point. :D</p>

<p>They have to have a personal statement or essay because they have TOO MANY qualified kids to admit who are applying. How the heck else are they going to choose.</p>

<p>So, it is objective up to the final cuts and then it is subjective, like life, I might add. Take three job applicants. Say, one is just not qualified. Toss that resume. Two are qualified. Who do you hire? The one you “like” best. Subjective.</p>

<p>I think the important take away, really, is that if you are waitlisted, you are fully qualified. And, while things are subjective at this level, that will work in your favor some places and not at others. As in life, some are supremely liked by all, but most of us find our way, even if we are not. ;)</p>

<p>Doesn’t the common application give six prompts, one of which is ‘pick a topic of your choice’?</p>

<p>I could well be wrong, but I don’t remember that from this year. We used the common app for only one school, which did admit DS. I seem to recall that there were several required essays, and the main one was the personal-statement type thing. But, again, I could be wrong. By the time DS applied to UNC, I know he was relieved that he could write about an obscure historical figure whom he admired blah-blah rather than retread the personal-statement path.</p>

<p>They have to have a personal statement or essay because they have TOO MANY qualified kids to admit who are applying.</p>

<p>Why does it have to be so dang confessional, though? I’m not questioning the essay component; in fact, I think it’s a great idea. (And DS is an excellent essay writer, so, again, no sour grapes here.) </p>

<p>It’s the kind of essay that bothers me. Again–I’m just asking for options and alternatives. Why is that so objectionable? (Just scratching head here.)</p>

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<p>That’s why there’s a ‘pick a topic of your choice option’. And I don’t think they expect something ‘confessional’. It seems to me that you think anytime you write about yourself, it has to be a soul-bearing confessional piece. Most of the good essays aren’t.</p>

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<p>There’s more to a student than just GPA, test scores, activities, etc. And there’s more to university life than just being in the classroom.</p>

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<p>This is the biggest problem with our society’s view of education. The business/customer analogy only goes so far. If the student is the customer, and the customer is always right, then…</p>

<p>BTW, two massive UCal studies showed that the best predictor of academic success in college was a combination of SAT II scores and high school GPAs. Yes, it’s counter-intuitive, but those indeed were the findings.</p>

<p>Maybe schools should start using SAT IIs and GPAs as their primary objective criteria, along with rigor of curriculum. That way, they may have to resort to fewer subjective methods to fill their limited spaces. Of course, US News does not factor SAT II scores into its rankings, so colleges would have little incentive to emphasize them. And thereby hangs a tale…</p>

<p>Maybe students are not costumers, but more like members of a club?</p>

<p>I just finished reading apps for an Ivy. After the first pass, to eliminate the wild a**, clearly out-of-range apps, each pkg goes through minimum three more reads, usually four: a 1st and 2nd reader and usually two more adcom reviews, usually reps for other parts of the country. No matter how NPR edited the Amherst report, there are “checks and balances” in place at my school. And, more than one final group meeting to discuss the vast pool of possible admits.</p>

<p>The problem is, as some have stated, that you end up with thousands of potential admits. Some are top in stats, some fall a tier below. And, yes, some fall a bit further from the top, but have remarkable profiles, nonetheless. Our school wants variety- kids who will be great scientists or anthropologists or writers, but also maybe play in the orchestra, maybe try out for a play, join an activist group, some clubs or student govt, get involved in research, work in the community, be great roommates, maybe write for the school paper or volunteer for committees, etc, etc. You don’t figure who these kids are- the ones who will keep the campus vibrant- just by looking at stats.</p>

<p>Leadership is not always president/founder or capt of sports team, but often found in simple, truer things, like peer mentoring, a school advisory committee, camp counselor for a few years or church teacher, hiking guide, read to kids at the library, etc. We liked it when a kid had consistency- ie, same activity for a few years- or a pattern of increasing responsibility (say, member of student gov 4 years, but vp in sr year.) We liked out-of-the-box things (which show the kid’s ability to go beyond what’s available at school or arranged thru school) and some hard-work activities. What didn’t impress was overloading with scientific jargon only a pro could translate, emphasizing that once/month he spent two hours helping in the church nursery, only school club activities or leadership, details about being on the (ugh) prom decorating committee- etc. Or, when the kid overloaded the honors/awards section with things like “9th grade, best in English class. 10th grade, best History report.” There’s more, but it is so much more complex than any few minutes in an NPR report can show.</p>

<p>Btw, we had the option of NOT reading any prior comments, when we looked at a file- just getting our own independent observations first. When you read a lot of these, it’s clear (yes) what sort of kid you’re dealing with- the words we liked to use were: motivated, compassionate, involved, committed, LoR says natural talent for xxx …you get the idea. This does not make it a “formula.” As in life, one gets an impression from “the whole.” And, when the LoRs back up our impressions, that’s weighty. </p>

<p>But, face it, file after file, the LoRs say the same darned things- always had her homework prepared, asked perceptive questions, loves learning, nice disposition. It is insane. We would look for evidence the LoR writer really like the kid, really saw academic promise and resiliance when faced with challenges. The hardest cases are when the kid wants to major in x and that hs teacher was lukewarm. Or, too often, when the kid didn’t ask that specialist teacher for a rec. (Why not?)</p>

<p>We saw plenty of McNuggets type essays- I can’t speak for that one, but I’ve read the vomit tales, the angry missives against kids at the mall, the pointless stuff about how she made best friends with the girl next to her in some class and how they passed notes during the lectures— real head-smackers: you say, why, why did she write this in a college app??? How does this show he is college-ready? And, these were top-stats kids. Sometimes, you cry out for the kid with the interesting angle- not the wacky, but the kid who shows how he grew from some experience or how he persisted for some reason or how it connects to the skills, strengths and interests he will bring to college.</p>

<p>In the end, some win, some lose.</p>

<p>The personal essay is subjective. Some admissions folks will like you and some won’t be as excited about your application. Your essay may be the deciding factor for an admissions committee. </p>

<p>It’s just how the real world works. We get impressions about people based on our interactions and personal communications. College admissions decisions for an applicant usually takes a much smaller slice of time than a typical job interview. The interactions are going to be the essay (even if indirect), maybe an interview and your “resume” or application. That’s it. </p>

<p>Not everyone writes well, but I believe everyone can write something memorable. It doesn’t have to be soul searching. It doesn’t have to be “quirky”. The bottom line is what does the essay tell the reader about the applicant? Are they interesting? Passionate? What makes them stand out? </p>

<p>The best essay gives the admissions committee a glimpse of who the student is. Hopefully it is a real reflection of the student, and not just what they think the admissions committee wants to hear. </p>

<p>Certain subjects are difficult to explore. As others have mentioned, use humor - but make sure it is funny or at least not objectionable, and watch the sarcasm, which doesn’t play well in this format. Some subjects might be taboo. Gimmicks are iffy. Just find a subject you want to explore and share some insight into who you are. </p>

<p>My favorite essays to read are ones that make me think 'Yep, that’s Jane/John!" The ones that bother me are ones that try TOO HARD. They are trying to impress someone, and you can tell.</p>

<p>*This is the biggest problem with our society’s view of education. *</p>

<p>We Americans are pragmatists, sure. And that’s bad in some ways. But it’s good in others. The fact is–college has become insanely expensive. And, at the same time, it is still the gateway to a career above the burger-flipping level. If we want to return to the medieval Trivium and Quadrivium and pursue learning for its own sake…well, that would be fine with me. But that’s not what the elite colleges want. They want to offer a kajillion PC “such-and-such studies” classes and underwater basket-weaving curricula while jettisoning core curricula and core requirements. As a consumer, I have every right to want to get my money’ worth. And, in many cases, at overpriced schools, that’s not what I’m getting.</p>

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<p>It’s a seller’s market. If I’ve got a banana stand and at the end of each day I’ve got leftover bananas – then I’m going to be very, very nice to everyone who comes in looking for a banana. But if there are hoards of hungry people coming after a limited supply of bananas – then I am (a) going to raise the price for a single banana, and sell them piece by piece, and (b) come up with whatever system I choose in deciding who gets to buy my bananas. </p>

<p>The part you are missing from is the fact that for every kid like yours as a competitive college, there are several thousand others that look just like him/her on paper. </p>

<p>Would you prefer a random drawing? Every name of a qualified applicant goes into the hopper and a computer is programmed to randomly spit out however many names are needed to fill the class? Because from the standpoint of the college, they’d probably end up with a perfectly workable class that way – the larger they are, the more likely randomness would work in their favor. But the applicant would probably feel pretty powerless in that situation. </p>

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<p>There is. They can write about anything they want. If they write very well, or choose a subject that somehow resonates with the ad com – or even something that strikes them as funny – then it may work to their advantage. </p>

<p>But the bottom line is that the ad com is going to choose the applicants they like the best. The essays & short answers are the applicants opportunity to try to get the ad com to like them. Sometimes its not needed – sometimes it just shines through with the list of EC’s or the LOR’s. But sometimes, that essay is all the kid has to separate the human being out from the numbers.</p>

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<p>Historians will correct me if I’m wrong but I think getting into medieval universities required an incredible amount of privilege and that they were definitely elitist institutions. What part of the population was even literate? Speaking of which, I keep thinking about your Irish monks, “who kept learning alive”. Are you talking about copying texts? Because I have been told some of these scribes were illiterate, just copiers. They transmitted earlier texts but were not so creative themselves. I know there are original works from this period. Maybe that is what you mean? They aren’t exactly mainstream, I don’t think… but again historians can correct me. While I am all for thinking about education through the ages, I do not think in ancient or medieval times that formal education was anything but elitist and that things are a whole lot more open today than ever before. So I am not following your arguments.</p>

<p>Lady Dianski,</p>

<p>The Common Application does has 6 topics available for the main essay - and then some of the schools require supplements. </p>

<p>Option #1. Evaluate a significant experience, achievement, risk you have taken, or ethical dilemma you have faced and its impact on you.</p>

<p>Option #2. Discuss some issue of personal, local, national, or international concern and its importance to you.</p>

<p>Option #3. Indicate a person who has had a significant influence on you, and describe that influence.</p>

<p>Option #4. Describe a character in fiction, a historical figure, or a creative work (as in art, music, science, etc.) that has had an influence on you, and explain that influence.</p>

<p>Option #5. A range of academic interests, personal perspectives, and life experiences adds much to the educational mix. Given your personal background, describe an experience that illustrates what you would bring to the diversity in a college community, or an encounter that demonstrated the importance of diversity to you.</p>

<p>Option #6. Topic of your choice.</p>

<p>Surely, among those open topics, something is available to write on!</p>

<p>And as I recall, Oxford and Cambridge does require personal essays.</p>

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<p>You keep cycling back to the whole test score/GPA claim vs. ‘subjective’ methods. You assume that as a result of the ‘subjective’ criteria, the admitted students are somehow not up-to-snuff with respect to GPA and test scores. </p>

<p>Yet, as I posted a few pages back, the majority of the admitted students at an elite college such as Harvard, do have high test scores and GPA. Over 75% of Harvard students are in the top 6% percentile on at least one or more part of the SAT. I doubt that the study you quote suggests that the 780 student has a better GPA than the 740 student, etc. </p>

<p>You should also recognize that there are studies done which show that those students who feel some sort of ‘connection’ to their university/college also have higher GPAs than those who don’t. So there are criteria other than test scores and GPA that correlate with academic success.</p>