NPR College Admissions Story

Parents Forum
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<p>I don’t feel angry, but I feel protective of my kid and she takes this all very personally. I know I shouldn’t blame Amherst for NPR’s editing, but I have a really negative impression of Amherst now. I do understand how hard it must be to choose from 8,000 applications, but the admissions officers just seemed so damn flippant about it all. “I never want to see another cookie again as long as I live” . . . give me a break. I get the sense of a bunch of exhausted and slightly punch-drunk people sitting around a table and suddenly some throw-away line about chicken nuggets seems like the funniest thing ever, so that kid gets in because he made them laugh. </p>

<p>And I think it was wrong for them to include identifiable details about essays. If the kid who wrote about only feeling really fascinated by music ever hears this interview, he is going to feel pretty bad.</p>

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<p>

Absolutely. I can boil it down even more:
What my kid has should be the primary criterion for admission.
What my kid doesn’t have should be irrelevant.</p>

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<p>I am glad you aren’t angry simpkin and my post wasn’t directed at anyone personally-I just detected a lot of anger in general about this issue.</p>

<p>Don’t think for a second I won’t be upset to see my son upset tonight if he doesn’t get the news he would like. I can’t imagine anyone seeing their child upset who wouldn’t be upset for them.</p>

<p>I am saying though these schools make it very clear it’s not just about measurable qualities when they are evaluating applicants. Other schools are more transparent about how they evaluate applicants.</p>

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<p>Most of us are also dancing around the issue of multiple apps. I plead totally guilty for my D. She applied to 9 schools. 2 “safeties”; 4 middles and 3 reaches. When kids do that…it screws up the supply demand thing, in relationship to the number of applications v. acceptances. It comes down to math. If there were a law saying you could only apply to two schools, boy would the numbers change. All of a sudden Harvard’s percentage would skyrocket, and they would not be deemed so “exclusive”. And guess what, apps at “big state U” would go up too. Why? Because you would certainly have to apply at a school that you felt would admit you. Not saying there should be a limit…i’m just saying it impacts the number of rejections. Do not take it personally. It’s a complete crap shoot, and while these adcoms are sincere (most of the time), they have zero idea about whether your son or daughter would be great at their school.</p>

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<p>If you could only apply to two schools, I think one of two things would happen:

  1. All the “match” schools would go out of business, or
  2. The selective schools would come up with some “pre-application” process to get the students they want.</p>
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<p>I know this would be impossible to implement, but our S and his friends wished that this process could be more like fraternity/sorority rush where you get to rank your schools in order of interest. There would have to some type of clearing house.</p>

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<p>

That would be like the “match” program for medical residencies. It’s just as nerve-wracking.</p>

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<p>I like the idea of a ranking system. It seems like all my daughter’s friends are getting into each other’s top choices. My DD was wait-listed by Middlebury, which was her #2 choice (#1 is a big reach). Meanwhile, her best friend at school was accepted – she has never visited Middlebury, applied because there is no supplemental essay, and is very much hoping for a different school. I suspect that if Middlebury knew these kids’ order of preference, the results may have been different. DD loved Middlebury, but she has an offer from another nice LAC, so I don’t think she is going to want to put up with the uncertainty of the wait list for Midd.</p>

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<p>I appreciate how in the UK you are only allowed to apply to 5 schools and you must and only apply to Cambridge OR Oxford, not both.</p>

<p>My S has a great offer on the table, but is still holding out that sliver of hope for Princeton. He only applied to one Ivy and he wishes other kids would have done the same.</p>

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<p>Essay vs Lincoln’s ax.</p>

<p>The ax Lincoln once owned worth millions of dollars, even though its head had been replaced three times and the handle twice since he last touched it. I read that in Crazy U.</p>

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</p>

<p>That really says it all.</p>

<p>Have already been on both sides of the “Why my kid and not yours?/Why your kid and not mine?” equation in the last six weeks or so. I’m sure there are reasons. I wish the Adcoms had time to tell us each what they were, but I know that’s not realistic.</p>

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<p>I don’t think the Oxbridge interview method plays to extroverts particularly. Oxford has put some of its interviews up on the web, with the goal of familiarizing applicants with the process, if they come from schools that do not often send students to Oxford or Cambridge. If you look at the interviews for math, computer science, or chemistry, you’ll see that the vast majority of the interview is spent on problem-solving with the tutors. The people running the interviews are the faculty, not people from the admissions office. </p>

<p>The interviews fit the Oxbridge goal of selecting the students who are the strongest academically. Beyond that, many of the Oxbridge colleges do look actively for students from the comprehensive schools who have high potential. </p>

<p>The whole system is different from ours. I think that the admissions outcomes are more predictable in the UK, because the characteristics sought are different. This makes the rule that limits the number of applications sensible there, while I think it would have bad effects here.</p>

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<p>

My memory is hazy, but I seem to recall that’s how the U of Cal system used to work. You submitted one application and ranked the campuses. If you weren’t admitted to your first choice you were considered on down the list.</p>

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<p>I heard that joke years ago, except in the version I heard it was Washington’s ax that he used to chop down the cherry tree.</p>

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<p>Apologize ahead if this has been mentioned in the thread, but one brave admissions officer, Dan of Tufts, is answering questions and comments regarding Tufts admission process. He starts the thread because of the NPR Amherst story. Check it out in the Tufts forum.</p>

<p>Now back to the debate.</p>

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<p>I don’t think schools care one bit about how much you love them unless you demonstrate that love by applying ED (if the school offers ED). That was precisely where my S’s first draft essay to his eventual ED school went wrong – it was all about “how much I love you.” My response was - big whoops, they have 30,000 kids who can all proclaim lots of love for this school. They’re not looking to please the most love-struck kid; they’re looking to assemble THEIR class. So it’s not what they can do for you, it’s what you can do for them. Honestly, I think this is common sense.</p>

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<p>I know, but other than the Ivies, aren’t they all trying for the best possible “yield”? Isn’t that part of the point of ED too? I keep reading about “Tufts syndrome” and this idea that schools reject the kids they think are using the school as a safety and will probably go somewhere else. So I would think that a lot of schools would really like to know where they stand with each kid. Maybe Amherst and Middlebury don’t care about yield, I don’t know.</p>

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<ol>
<li><p>The biggest obstacle to a match system is that it would preclude competition based on financial aid/scholarships. Which would both work the the detriment of competitive students from less-affluent families and violate U.S. antitrust laws. So it’s not going to happen.</p></li>
<li><p>It’s not necessarily a mistake that Middlebury seems to take the kid who doesn’t care and waitlists the one who wants to go there. All colleges are looking for diverse, well-rounded classes, and all colleges, I’m sure, have an applicant pool heavily skewed towards kids who are attracted to the particular college’s main strengths and dominant culture/reputation. I bet it’s waaaaay easier to get into Oberlin, say, if you are a male STEM type who is vice president of the local Young Republicans than if you are a woman who is interested in contemporary poetry, indie rock, and sustainable agriculture. There’s much less competition for that position on the great mobile of class-construction.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>One of mine applied to one Ivy. And five great LACs. After visiting and interviewing, checking course selections and anything else we could think of, (including internships and how strong the career counseling is, and digging deep into the financial aid strengths,) she knew her strongest preference was one particular LAC, but that she could be happy and productive at any of the choices. The Ivy would be icing on the cake, something to crow about to peers.</p>

<p>We limited her to 6 apps, based on the expense, and made it clear fin aid would be a major final decision consideration, even for her top school. We were quite rational. We knew her ultimate back-up would be our not-great state U (but it’s strong enough in her major)- and she could even apply after April 1, if everything else failed.</p>

<p>The one LAC that rejected her was, I confess, one I had pushed a bit because their finaid rep was so strong. It would not have completely satisfied her specific driving intellectual interest, but she could have met her basic needs and shifted a bit. She is now extremely happy at that top choice LAC, the one she liked best from the start, where she has had extraordinary academic, campus and community experiences. It is a school chock full of smart, motivated kids, and a high record of post-grad success in grad school acceptances, jobs, internships. They are funding her semester abroad, this fall, and sending her on another trip, based on her major.</p>

<p>About the Ivy: truth is, she was slightly underqualified- maybe barely in the top 25%. But, she was interested in a major that, at that school, crosses disciplinary lines- profs would have loved her as a student; she would have taken full advantage of the course offerings. I thought that if adcoms viewed the qualitative additons she would have made to classes and the campus community, she might have a chance.</p>

<p>Despite all my supposed smarts, she was rejected from the Ivy. Her immediate reaction: great, now I can just go to my real top choice. </p>

<p>And, yes, it is the Ivy I work for. (Not a reviewer the year she applied; not allowed anywhere near admissions that spring.) So, the message is: make your kids happy by helping them find the right match, as Calmom says, the “real” right match.</p>

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<p>ccreader –
Thanks for mentioning thread on the Tufts forum. So far, for the most part, reinforces what was said in the NPR story.</p>

<p>This has probably been mentioned on this thread already…but…for those upset that a sentence meant an accept or waitlist/reject: the two sentences pulled from the essays mentioned in the NPR story were just two sentences. We don’t know if there was more of the essay that was read in the session, or if the sentences were used to emphasize something the ad com was trying to illustrate about the applicant.</p>