<p>Less well known for sure, but the costs are lower.
eg. IUP has an instate tuition of about 9 grand with a total cost estimated cost of around $24K compared to Penn State which is around 32K. And the last time I was chatting with one of the profs there, they were worried about enrollment declining what what they needed to attract more OOS students…</p>
People in that income range are not wealthy. They get the short end of the taxman’s stick. They tend to have earned income rather than passive income, so they get smacked hard w the highest marginal tax rate.</p>
<p>60k fullpay is 90k in gross income for a high tax bracket earner.</p>
<p>Re: $250,000 to $400,000 annual income… (which is the top 2.32% of household incomes in the US)</p>
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<p>$250,000 income from wages and salaries (the least favorable kind of income for tax purposes) for married filing jointly with 2 kids and no deductions beyond the standard deduction produces federal income tax of about $52,000.</p>
<p>Let’s add about $18,000 in social security and medicare taxes, bringing the federal take to $70,000. Let’s also add $20,000 for state income and payroll tax in a high tax state, bringing the total income and payroll tax to $90,000.</p>
<p>That still leaves $160,000 in take-home pay after all income and payroll taxes. That is still more than three times the pre-tax annual household income in the US, so it would be a stretch to think of that as “not wealthy”.</p>
<p>However, those other Pennsylvania public universities also tend to have high student loan debt. If you go to [CollegeData:</a> College Search, Financial Aid, College Application, College Scholarship, Student Loan, FAFSA Info, Common Application](<a href=“http://www.collegedata.com%5DCollegeData:”>http://www.collegedata.com) and search for public schools with student loan debt over $35,000, 10 out of 19 schools that come up are Pennsylvania publics (including Indiana University of Pennsylvania). Of the 40 Pennsylvania publics listed, only 9 show student loan debt under $30,000.</p>
<p>$160k take-home pay is upper income, but it sure ain’t “wealthy”. “Wealthy” is when u have enough investments to generate enough passive income that u don’t have to work a daytime job.</p>
<p>Someone with 250k income with 4 people family is paying over 50k in federal taxes + probably 5-10k in state taxes in a state with income tax. Essentially it is for one fullpay at a private school.</p>
<p>Interestingly enough, people have almost no deductions or tax credit for tuition after about 120k income for a similar family.</p>
<p>Of course, it is a choice to have a big family and a choice to send kids to daycare or private school. It’s also a choice to live in neighborhoods/suburbs that cost more than others. People in those circumstances may not “feel” rich, but as ucbalumnus points out, they are doing far better than most. Obviously, there are people living in the same expensive cities working low-wage jobs and also raising families there.</p>
<p>There is only so much aid, and the line is drawn accordingly. I agree that the expected contibutions are terribly high. I think the time is fast coming when some of the schools, particularly privates that are so priced are going to be having trouble getting their sticker price. I’m seeing it with some of the smaller privates where the vast majority of kids are paying less than what is asked. </p>
<p>Cut out those loans, and it will bring a rapid drop in price, IMO.</p>
<p>In response to earlier discussions, PA’s two public flagships (Pitt and Penn State) have the highest list price for in-state tuition in the US. However, in addition, they also charge more for many academic programs. You can easily be charged 20K for in-state tuition at either school for some programs. In addition, neither university has great aid, although Penn State has increased their aid recently because their applications dropped in number, and because they were losing so many students to private colleges with lower net costs. </p>
<p>For my daughter, several private colleges had lower net costs than in-state Penn State.</p>
<p>I don’t see how meeting the cost of a college education is “worse for the ‘comfortable’ than the needy.”</p>
<p>The median household income for our area is less than $50,000. The vast majority cannot afford hundreds of dollars a month for ECs (which involve not only classes and sports, but equipment, frequent travel to out of town competitions, etc). They can’t afford private school or test prep classes, or gap year trips to Europe. Many high school students are working after school to cover expenses for activities the kids from “comfortable” families get by asking mom and dad to write a check. Those working kids have fewer hours to devote to studying and ECs, which makes it tougher to maintain top grades and limits the number of ECs they can add to their records. </p>
<p>It doesn’t stop after high school. These kids not only take on full-time course loads, but full-time jobs as well. Even if they get partial tuition, they’re still taking out thousands of dollars in loans. If they can’t get a job right out of college, their parents (who are struggling to pay rent, car insurance, and the costs of unexpected auto repairs) aren’t necessarily going to be able to help them much when their loans come due. </p>
<p>I think it would be a tough sell to convince them that “comfortable” families have it worse.</p>
<p>It depends on your definition of comfortable I suppose. If comfortable is 400K most would likely agree. However, if comfortable is 85K not so much.</p>
<p>charlieschm - we had the same experience in our state (New Hampshire). Our state flagship was a good bit more for us vs. privates. Which made our decision that much easier.</p>
<p>Now try the same thought experiment for the other 97% of the households. $250,000 (about $160,000 after taxes, probably a bit more than that since $160,000 was an estimate based on a household of four, not six) per year is still much more than what most households of that size have to budget with.</p>
<p>*
Try raising 4 kids on $250K in NYC, Boston or S.F. - after you pay taxes plus day-care and two or three tuitions, tell me how rich you feel.
*
Why have a larger family than you could afford?</p>
<p>Right. The reality for regular middle-class people is having to take the financial aspects of family planning into account (not that all are successful). I know lots of young couples who put off having a second child till the first one is out of daycare and in public (free) kindergarten for just this reason. They are making other compromises as well that a lot of people here can’t imagine.</p>
<p>In regards to parents living in NYC, San Francisco or Boston, one of the issues is that financial aid formulas do not usually take into account cost of living. A person living in a very simple house in one of these cities would have to pay 3 times as much for housing and probably 1.5 times as much in total taxes as someone living in most other parts of the country. Therefore, a household income that would typically be able to afford to pay X dollars a year in college expenses in most parts of the country would not be able to support the same college contribution per year if they lived in one of these cities.</p>
<p>Sorry, but telling people not to have kids if they can’t easily afford to educate them in expensive private schools is wacko unless you’re also going to tell very low-income people they can’t afford kids. Period. Good grief.</p>