<p>So you don’t see the difference between living in an less expensive area and having one kid or living in one of the most expensive areas in the country and having four?
:rolleyes:</p>
<p>Again, why take on more expense than you can handle?
Not exactly the actions of a mature adult.
Ballet lessons and child care aren’t required to have children.
I know a family with five kids in a pricey area and they’ve never paid for either.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Glido, that’s not the point. The point is if a family is going to have more kids than they can afford, they shouldn’t expect to be able to easily pay for all the things they would if they just had one or two. I believe earlier you suggested that they also are entitled to private school as part of their “comfortable” life. Since when is that a right? </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Don’t be ridiculous, actingmt. I challenge you to find a dance studio that gives away lessons.</p>
<p>Sally, no-one is talking about being entitled to a private school education! The reporter was surprised to find out that it was often unaffordable even for the comfortable. That’s all. Financial aid cut-offs do enter the affordability equation.</p>
<p>I never said anything about dance lessons. lol. But, they are available at no or very low-cost thru many civic organizations.</p>
<p>actingmt, you responded directly to glido’s point about dance lessons and daycare. Did I misinterpret your “LOL” response about low-income people?</p>
<p>And it does seem some are thinking they should be entitled to a private-school education. This is glido’s earlier post I was referencing. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Based on the context I assumed he/she meant private schools (K-12), not college.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>News to me. There’s no such thing in our area and I’m not sure who, if that were even available, is paying for ballet shoes and toe shoes and leotards and performance costumes…</p>
<p>This reminds me of the NY Times series on the “Invisible” girl from Brooklyn, Dasani. One thing that struck me is that she attends a magnet school of sorts, for the arts, where the kids in dance class have to take turns using the floor because “Dance class is so crowded that students practice in intervals.”</p>
<p><a href=“Invisible Child: Dasani’s Homeless Life - The New York Times”>Invisible Child: Dasani’s Homeless Life - The New York Times;
<p>Yeah, there’s definitely some misinterpreting going on imho. I didn’t see Gildo as feeling entitled at all, just not rich. But, telling people they shouldn’t have had so many kids seemed a little dismissive of a very real issue. The reporter in the story is not the only one who was shocked by the rapidly escalating cost of college tuition and I don’t really get how choices made 20 years ago can be blamed.</p>
<p>Comparing the very comfortable to the very poor makes no sense to me at all. Of course, the very comfortable are more comfortable. It’s the middle class who has problems. Dasani’s mom had 7 kids and no job. So, what’s the point? Respectfully.</p>
<p>So here’s my take on it. Certainly the cost of college comes as a big surprise to a lot of people. I mentioned to a friend what the State U costs and she was shocked, and her kid got out of college 2 years ago and went to a state u. </p>
<p>For many who are very comfortable, they don’t like the fact that they have to pay full price, but they do because they are seen as able to afford it.</p>
<p>For many who are low income, there is aid which can help, especially at schools with deep endowment pockets.</p>
<p>For those in the middle, they feel like they have to pay full price because they are seen as able to afford it, but they don’t feel able to afford it, and they feel like the very comfortable have no right to complain and they feel like the low income get more help and shouldn’t complain.</p>
<p>And what constitutes “very comfortable” “comfortable” “middle class” and “low income” often varies depending on where you sit.</p>
<p>With an income of under $85K and a husband who gets Social Security, $250000 or more with a $160K take home sounds very comfortable, but I don’t live in NY suburbs either.</p>
<p>My kids get a lot of aid but it’s still a challenge to pay our part. We live in an expensive region, on what I think is actually middle class by CC standards. We can only afford our EFC because we stayed in our starter house in a marginal school district. My kids were priced out of our state colleges, not enough aid and no way we could have paid the tuition. Fortunately, my kids did very well in school and could get into private colleges that met need with no or limited loans. They know a lot of good kids from high school who are slowly working their way through community colleges, or went in the military, because there were no viable 4 yr options for them. Most colleges do not meet need. Kids from families making 80K can’t pay 28K for state college. The kid whose parents make 250K but can write a check for the 28K each year is sitting pretty. They also enjoy advantages which make it far more likely they have a shot at merit aid which might make a private college affordable if they prefer that option.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I don’t want to get into a semantic quibble over who is “wealthy” and who is “very comfortable” and who is merely “upper middle class.” I’d just point out that a household with a gross income of $250K and a take-home of $160K isn’t likely to get a dime of need-based FA, even with 2 kids in college. But if you’ve got 2 kids in private colleges at $60K per child per year, that’s 3/4 of your after-tax income going to college expenses, leaving $40K for what is probably a pretty big mortgage, utilities, insurance, car payments, medical and dental care, grocery bills, retirement saving, etc. That household isn’t going to starve. They probably won’t even be relegated to Hamburger Helper. But it’s still got to pinch when suddenly your disposable income is reduced by 75%.</p>
<p>The point is, you’ve got to go pretty high up the income scale before the cost of college ceases to be painful, and I don’t think $250K is above that magic threshold. As someone with an income well below $250K, I nonetheless have some sympathy for people at that level, especially if they have more than one kid in college. Now if they’ve been at that income level for a long time, they probably should have had the foresight to save for college, even if they are in a high cost-of-living area. But not everyone with a $250K income has been at that level for a long time, and that doesn’t seem to make much difference in the FA formulas.</p>
<p>I’m not disagreeing with you. I said that what these terms, “wealthy” “very comfortable” “comfortable” “middle class” and “low income” mean will vary depending on the perspective. I’m sure there are people who think I’m “very comfortable.” But I don’t feel like it. </p>
<p>I also acknowledged that $250K would be a lot of money where I live, but wouldn’t be in other parts of the country.</p>
<p>I also agree that $120,000 out of $160,000 is a huge percentage, assuming that you are paying college all out of current income. </p>
<p>Understand that $85K gross equates to something that doesn’t feel well to do. That’s all I mean.</p>
<p>Yet, my kids have not been eligible for “need” based aid, other than loans.</p>
<p>I think it’s hard on everyone except the very rich, whatever that means, and each family has to decide how to handle it. And everyone, pretty much, feels imposed upon to pay the high cost of college.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Define “middle class” in this context. It appears that everyone has a different definition of “middle class” as it relates to income and wealth levels people in the “middle class” have, or the income and wealth levels needed to be in the “middle class”.</p>
<p>That is precisely the issue. UC’s cut off for aid is 80K. So, it makes a big difference if you live in SF or Chico, for example.</p>
<p>I agree with everything on this thread except the part about Gildo having too many kids.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Paying full price at every college requires an income in the top few percent of households in the US. If that is the “middle”, that must make the vast majority of Americans “low income”.</p>
<p>Even income which results in a FAFSA EFC that is equal or higher than the list price at the more expensive in-state publics would still be in the top 11% or so.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>If you actually use the net price calculator to run various scenarios, you will realize that UCs offer financial aid at significantly higher levels of income. The $80,000 is just the promise that aid will be at least as much as tuition for incomes below that, but there does not appear to be a “cliff” there from running net price calculators. Note that $80,000 is the 70th percentile (top 30%) household income in the US, so the “middle middle” of the income range is below that, not above that.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That having more kids than you can afford is a financial burden no matter your income level, I suppose. But my actual point was about ballet lessons and how not-free they are, even at a public “arts” school.</p>
<p>ucbalmus, I think you’re right. My kids have attended and are likely to attend an in state public that is not one of the more expensive in state publics, thus the EFC does not provide aid.</p>
<p>And I admitted that I probably appear “very comfortable” to many. I’m trying to be very rational about this.</p>
<p>I’m just saying that college costs a lot, no matter who you are.</p>
<p>“That having more kids than you can afford is a financial burden no matter your income level, I suppose. But my actual point was about ballet lessons and how not-free they are, even at a public “arts” school.”</p>
<p>Well, good. Because that was my point, too. If we’re going to tell Gildo he has too many kids then we need to tell Dasani’s mom the same thing.</p>
<p>Personally, I don’t think this is the answer but the suggestion annoyed me.
That’s all.</p>
<p>Having kids is a choice, sending them to college is a choice.
I think the vent threads are in the cafe.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Who is Dasani? And why can’t we stick to the subject of this thread, which is the cost of college for higher-income people?</p>
<p>Dasani is the girl the NY Times profiled in the link I shared above. And I agree that complaining about the high cost of having many children will invite some questions about why one had so many in the first place, whether everyone is sharing a one room apartment or several college tuitions are being paid.</p>