NU HPME v/s Brown PLME

Pre-Med & Medical School Multiple Degree Programs
41

<p>

You do realize that more that the majority of the general public doesn’t know that Brown is an Ivy School. In fact, it is often considered the lowest of the Ivies as Michigan actually is considered just as good as Brown by the Ivies, just look at the other Ivy threads, they all conclude that Brown is one of the lower Ivy, along with Cornell (except in engineering). Also, I don’t know where you got your info from, but NU is known as an exceptional school. Beside the law school and med school, their business school has given them a name worldwide, so has their journalism and communication school. NU’s School of Music is one of the top conservatories in the US, making it a name amongst musicians. Also, NU is the Big Ten, has won many national titles in Division 1 sports so I’m pretty sure that NU is pretty well known. You must live in California or something because UCLA is definitely not seen as academically stronger than NU by the general public. NU is on the same level as UChicago in academics, it’s what type of social scene one wants. Brown on the other hand is in the Ivy League, suffice to say, one of the least watched sports conference. ESPN rarely shows Ivy League games, on the other hand NU has been shown on national television in bowl games and during the regular season. So NU gets quite a lot of attention by the public. In fact, when Michigan was looking for a coach, NU was one of the rumors that sports sites were discussing, so yeah, they are known. That plus their academics and location makes them well regarded as a top school known my the general public. Few people know that Brown is in the Ivy League (in fact many people don’t even know what the Ivy League is, that’s why Columbia’s admissions officer always ask that question!!!).
BTW, you do realize that NU has the highest endowment out of all those school you talked about. That coupled with ranking, the sports (few wants to seriously go watch D3, UChicago, or a bad D1 school, UCB), and the location makes NU a great choice. UCLA is seen as academically lower than NU by students accepted to those schools: the large class size, the huge faculty-student ratio makes UCLA less appealing.</p>

42

<p>First of all, tell me what’s percentage of the students from east, west, south and mid west, NU has. Do you know Ivies students come from all over the country and the world?</p>

<p>From East coast, ppl who can’t get into Ivy league, choose Duke, then Tufts/NYU, or Amherst, Williams, u of Maryland, U of Virginia or Boston University or some other great LACs. i think NU is their 3rd choice.</p>

<p>From West coast, ppl choose Stanford, CIT, Ivy leagues, UCs, USC, Huvey Mudd, Pomona, and some other professional schools, seldom choose NU.</p>

<p>From South, ppl choose Ivy leagues, Rice, Duke, Emory, GIT, U of Texas in Austin, and some other great state flagship schools, seldom take NU.</p>

<p>So, where the NU students vastly from, the answer is mid-west, especially rich mid-westerners. Maybe a little come from east coast (rich kids), because of the distance from east coast is much closer from west coast and south. The rich family considers if they attend mid-west state schools, and pay the similar tuition, and kids like Chicago, then they may choose NU. To compare NU with Ivies or U of Chicago is a joke, they have completely different student body, admit it. </p>

<p>When you have a job in Chicago, and wants to attend graduate school, then U of Chicago and NU may be a choice. That’s why the rank in NU’s graduate school seems higher, same to U of Michigan. </p>

<p>Please study what selectivity and cross-admits means … no offense!</p>

43

<p>Sounds like a lot of freedom to pursue your own specific interests</p>

<p>[Northwestern</a> University Feinberg School of Medicine | Facebook](<a href=“http://www.facebook.com/pages/Northwestern-University-Feinberg-School-of-Medicine/117533693650]Northwestern”>Redirecting...)</p>

<p>plus you’ve got Dan Persa, Drake Dunsmore, Jeremy Ebert, Venric Mark, and a slew of other WILDCATS to cheer on !</p>

<p>GO CATS !!!</p>

44

<p>The medical school class at NW consists of people who did undergrad at a wide variety of schools. Until recently, Brown Medical was almost all Brown undergrads and is still predominantly Brown undergrads.</p>

45

<p>First, congratulations! Both programs are solid - Your son will do well in either program. The details are just that - details. If there is an important factor at one or both programs consider those facts but do not get lost in the statistics. Don’t forget your son will be an individual, not an aggregate statistic - He will make his own way. Having made a very similar difficult decision, I would strongly suggest that your son visit, spend time with students, sit in on classes, speak to the program advisors and get a good feeling where he thinks he will fit and be happy. He will be in that program and with those students for a long time. There is a lot to be said for being happy. In the end, your son will be a M.D. upon completion of either (very strong) program - There is a lot to be said about enjoying the journey.</p>

46

<p>

  1. NU was ranked 17th in 1987. Since then, it’s been always ranked within top-15, except 1988.
  2. Feinberg has been ranked no lower than 22nd since 1998</p>
47

<p>Should your child ever decide to use his medical degree for anything besides clinical medicine having a Brown degree is worth more than a Northwestern degree in my opinion.</p>

48

<p>^Residency ratings (USN) and specialty match lists all say Northwestern Feinberg is better.</p>

<p>It’s really easy to play that “in my opinion” card; it’s also easy to pull statements out of the vacuum (see post #46 for example). The PLME fans on this thread seem to be masters of both. I wonder what their next trick is; maybe “I know xyz…blah blah… they told me…”.</p>

49

<p>Here is the list of med school ranking history from [2008</a> US News Medical School Rankings [Archive] - Student Doctor Network Forums](<a href=“2008 US News Medical School Rankings | Student Doctor Network”>2008 US News Medical School Rankings | Student Doctor Network)</p>

<p>in 1997 NU med ranked 25 - i deem it as 2nd tier school by then.</p>

<p>2005 2004 2003 2002 2001 2000 1999 1998 1997 1995 1993
Harvard 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
Wash U 3 2 3 4 3 4 3 5 4 5 5
Hopkins 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2
Duke 6 4 5 3 5 6 4 3 5 6 6
U Penn 4 4 4 4 3 3 4 7 6 7 7
UCSF 5 6 6 7 7 6 7 4 6 4 4
U Mich 9 7 8 9 12 10 9 9 9 11
Columbia 10 8 7 6 5 8 7 8 8 8 8
Stanford 8 8 11 9 10 10 9 10 10 9 9
U Wash 7 10 10 11 9 9 13 13 11 9 9
Yale 11 10 9 8 7 5 4 6 3 3 3
Cornell 14 12 11 11 14 13 9 12 12 17
Baylor 13 13 13 11 12 15 13 15 15 15
UCLA 11 14 13 14 10 10 12 11 13 12
U Pitt 16 15 17 20 19 24 19 17 17 18
Vanderbilt 1715 16 16 16 16 15 14 14 14
UCSD 14 17 20 24 23 22 19 20 18 13
UTSW 17 17 17 17 19 19 17 21 20<br>
Emory 20 19 20 22 19 19 21 19 24<br>
Northwestern 20 20 22 20 22 21 25<br>
UNC 23 20 22 24 23 22<br>
Mayo 23 22 15 15 15 14 24 24 22<br>
U Chicago 19 22 19 17 18 18 18 16 16 16
Case 20 24 22 17 17 16 15 18 19 19
U Alabama 23 25 28 27 26 24 25<br>
UVa 26 25 27 28 30 28<br>
U Wisc 26 25 31 30 31 32<br>
MSSM 32 28 22 23 23 27<br>
Iowa 28 28 30 29 32 30<br>
NYU 32 30 26 24 27 24 21 23 22 20
U Colorado 30 31 31 33 33 33<br>
U Rochester 30 32 28 31 28 30<br>
USC 32 32 36 43 40 36<br>
Dartmouth 35 34 34 34 36 41<br>
OHSU 35 34 35 35 39 36<br>
U Minn 38 34 36 35 33 36<br>
Yeshiva/Einstein 38 37 31 32 28 28 24 22 21
OSU 37 38 44 40 40 39<br>
Indiana 45 39 47 43 40 41<br>
Tufts 43 40 43 37 36 41<br>
U Florida 46 40 44 40 44 45<br>
Wake 41 40 39 43 50 45<br>
Boston U 28 43 39 37 33 33<br>
Brown 40 43 39 40 44<br>
Georgetown 46 43 43 44 39<br>
U Cinn 41 43 44 48 40 45<br>
U Maryland 43 43 39 43 44 48<br>
Utah xx 48 38 39 36 33<br>
UCD 46 49<br>
Jefferson xx 50 48 50 48<br>
MCW xx 50 50 50<br>
U Miami xx 50 49 48 50
UCI 46 53<br>
U Mass 50 53 48 48 44 41<br>
UT-Houston xx 53<br>
StonyBrook xx 56<br>
Tulane xx 56<br>
UMDNJ xx RWJ 56<br>
U Conn xx 59<br>
VCU/MCV xx 60</p>

50

<p>When i say —>
“Recalled some 20-30 years ago, i believe NU 's rank is around 30-40 may be even lower (USnews ranks), how it come to its current ranks, i really don’t know, maybe it has beaten up some good public schools.” I mean the general school rank, not med school alone."</p>

<p>This is just my impression, may not be accurate. correct me, if you can find some other sources.</p>

51

<p>2011 Ranking (Research) v. 2005-1993 Rankings
[I see some big changes in UPenn, UChicago, Mt.Sinai, Brown, Stanford, Yale, Alabama, … ]

  1. Harvard 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
  2. U Penn 4 4 4 4 3 3 4 7 6 7 7
  3. Hopkins 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2
  4. Wash U 3 2 3 4 3 4 3 5 4 5 5
  5. Duke 6 4 5 3 5 6 4 3 5 6 6
  6. UCSF 5 6 6 7 7 6 7 4 6 4 4
  7. Stanford 8 8 11 9 10 10 9 10 10 9 9
  8. Yale 11 10 9 8 7 5 4 6 3 3 3
  9. U Wash 7 10 10 11 9 9 13 13 11 9 9
  10. Columbia 10 8 7 6 5 8 7 8 8 8 8
  11. U Mich 9 7 8 9 12 10 9 9 9 11
  12. U Chicago 19 22 19 17 18 18 18 16 16 16
  13. UCLA 11 14 13 14 10 10 12 11 13 12
  14. U Pitt 16 15 17 20 19 24 19 17 17 18
  15. UCSD 14 17 20 24 23 22 19 20 18 13
  16. Vanderbilt 1715 16 16 16 16 15 14 14 14
  17. Cornell 14 12 11 11 14 13 9 12 12 17
  18. Mt.Sinai
  19. Northwestern 20 20 22 20 22 21 25
  20. UNC 23 20 22 24 23 22
  21. Emory 20 19 20 22 19 19 21 19 24
  22. Baylor 13 13 13 11 12 15 13 15 15 15
  23. UTSW 17 17 17 17 19 19 17 21 20
  24. UVa 26 25 27 28 30 28
  25. Case 20 24 22 17 17 16 15 18 19 19
  26. Mayo 23 22 15 15 15 14 24 24 22
  27. Iowa 28 28 30 29 32 30
  28. U Wisc 26 25 31 30 31 32
  29. Brown 40 43 39 40 44
  30. NYU 32 30 26 24 27 24 21 23 22 20
  31. U Alabama 23 25 28 27 26 24 25
  32. Dartmouth 35 34 34 34 36 41
  33. U Rochester 30 32 28 31 28 30
  34. Boston U 28 43 39 37 33 33
  35. U Minn 38 34 36 35 33 36
  36. OHSU 35 34 35 35 39 36
  37. USC 32 32 36 43 40 36 </p>

<p>MSSM 32 28 22 23 23 27
U Colorado 30 31 31 33 33 33
Yeshiva/Einstein 38 37 31 32 28 28 24 22 21
OSU 37 38 44 40 40 39
Indiana 45 39 47 43 40 41
Tufts 43 40 43 37 36 41
U Florida 46 40 44 40 44 45
Wake 41 40 39 43 50 45
Georgetown 46 43 43 44 39
U Cinn 41 43 44 48 40 45
U Maryland 43 43 39 43 44 48
Utah xx 48 38 39 36 33
UCD 46 49
Jefferson xx 50 48 50 48
MCW xx 50 50 50
U Miami xx 50 49 48 50
UCI 46 53
U Mass 50 53 48 48 44 41
UT-Houston xx 53
StonyBrook xx 56
Tulane xx 56
UMDNJ xx RWJ 56
U Conn xx 59
VCU/MCV xx 60</p>

52

<p>Research rank variation >= 5 positions from 2005 to 2011:</p>

<p>U of Chicago, 19 -> 12, up 7 points
Yale, 11 -> 5, up 6 points
Brown, 40 -> 29, up 11 points </p>

<p>U of Alabama, 23 -> 31, down 8 points
Baylor, 13 -> 22, down 8 points<br>
UTSW, 17 -> 22, down 5 points
U of Boston, 28->34, down 6 points</p>

53

<p>

1987-2010
17 16 19 23 14 13 13 13 9 9 10 14 13 12 10 11 11 12 14 14 12 12 12</p>

<p>“may not be accurate” is an understatement. You were way off. </p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/988604-part-i-us-news-rankings-87-07-plus-11-a.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/988604-part-i-us-news-rankings-87-07-plus-11-a.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

54

<p>Sam Lee, i am more interested in the year before 1987…</p>

55

<p>US News started ranking colleges in 1983 (less than 30 years ago) when only dozen colleges were on the list. The top-25 list first appeared in 1988. So NU couldn’t possibly be “around 30-40” at any given time like you “recalled”. Maybe you lived in a different Universe back then or maybe you are prone to have false beliefs and thoughts that have nothing to do with reality. </p>

<p>Oh, I may act like I am the one that “recalled” but I am really not old enough to do that. Thanks for making me feel old. ;)</p>

56

<p>Here is the college rankings, i would like to use (give those great LACs a fair chance), I konw many people may not agree. [50</a> Top Colleges](<a href=“http://www.50topcolleges.com/]50”>http://www.50topcolleges.com/)</p>

<p>You mentioned that “The top-25 list began in 1988”, sorry i didn’t know that, and thank you for the information. </p>

<p>I am here not saying NU is not a good school, admit it has attractive medical student match list like Brown. I am just try to provide some information plus my own general impression. If you don’t agree that’s fine.</p>

57

<p>Just wanted to thank everyone and update the news that S decided to go to HPME. He visited both the schools and talked to lots of people. I think the main reason was medical school prestige, location in Chicago, access to much more diverse patients, 7 year program, the program advising at NU, the research opportunity with the professor that he had worked with, the Kellogg’s school and the opportunity that he will have to volunteer at the Shedd Aquarium as he is a scuba diver. He also said he felt more comfortable with the people at NU.</p>

58

<p>@MedicalMom2: Congratulations on your son’s final choice of NU HPME.</p>

59

<p>BigFire, </p>

<p>If I didn’t visit the following site showing the geographic distribution of NU students, I might believe everything you wrote at post #42. I probably would think you spend your retirement years going all over the countries to get such intimate knowledge on what schools HS kids in different parts of countries matriculate. :smiley:
[Applying</a> to Northwestern: Office of Undergraduate Admission - Northwestern University](<a href=“http://www.ugadm.northwestern.edu/apply/index.html]Applying”>Apply: Undergraduate Admissions - Northwestern University)</p>

<p>Other than Illinois and Ohio, the most representative states are outside the Midwest - California, Texas, New York, New Jeresey, and Florida.</p>

<p>By the way, BigFire, I wouldn’t call Brown match list “attractive”. There are tons of “medicine/Peds/Family Medicine”, which are far from among the most coveted specialties out there. It’s okay if you don’t want to agree. But please listen to someone in the know:

</p>

60

<p>Sam, i am not worry about your comment on the rank or residency match. Based on all the parameters and sources that plugged into [50</a> Top Colleges](<a href=“http://www.50topcolleges.com/Rankings.html]50”>http://www.50topcolleges.com/Rankings.html), NU still rank 22th. </p>

<p>From 1999 to 2011, Northwestern 25 -> 19, most of years hovering around 20, 21, 22. In 1999 it even falls back to 25th rank. If within teens rank is considered tier 1, then i would say only this year NU enters bottom tier 1, the rest of years are still in tier 2. When Baylor and UTSW both are always in teens rank, but NU has only a year enters bottom tier 1, and claim itself tier 1 school, it is absurdly unfair to both schools. </p>

<p>Just curious why NU’s main affiliated hospital system sever ties with in 2008 and moves toward U of Chicago? And U of Chicago’s rank is advancing quickly in recent years. I am wondering how true this year NU’s rank 19 can be with the aforementioned tragic issue, and stay within 20th rank in the future.</p>