<p>Oh and OP, Northwestern is stronger than Michigan in terms of grad econ and grad chem too.</p>
<p>…and Michigan is stronger than NU in a myriad of programs as well. That’s not the point. For the OP, Northwestern University make sense and seems to be the best choice. For other students, Michigan would make sense. You are comparing two schools that are academically peers.</p>
<p>Sorry, but they are peers. Academically overall, Michigan is every bit as good as Northwestern. You are drinking too much of the USNWR Kool Aid. Look at ANY world ranking, other than USNWR, and you’ll see Michigan ranked near or above Northwestern.</p>
<p>They offer different types of experiences. For my money, Michigan is simply way too big. That’s not to say that it’s not an excellent school – it is – but my “Platonic ideal” of a college experience isn’t on a campus or with a student body so large. Other people, of course, will have different points of view or preferences. Certainly the student in mind has an opinion on whether he prefers a Michigan campus feel or a NU campus feel, and that’s as important to keep in mind as the rankings.</p>
<p>“For my money, Michigan is simply way too big.”</p>
<p>Have you ever actually spent time on the Michigan campus Pizzagirl?</p>
<p>Pizzagirl --</p>
<p>My D felt the same way as you. She loved NU (and is there now); felt that Mich was too big. However, I could easily understand a student loving Mich and being tepid about NU.</p>
<p>Otherwise, as I’ve said before – both are excellent schools, which is really all that matters.</p>
<p>Exactly zephyr15. Fit is the number one consideration between these two schools. If both schools are equal that way and costs are similar, then program strength should be the next consideration.</p>
<p>“For my money, Michigan is simply way too big.”</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, if by your statement, you mean to say that Michigan is too large and overwhelming for your taste, I can certainly see your point. On the other hand, if you are attempting to say that somehow, students are shortchanged, and given a diluted version of the education students at Northwestern receive, I do not agree. </p>
<p>This said, given the OP’s academic interests, and assuming the OP likes both environments equally, I think NU makes better sense. If the OP were interested in say Engineering, or Mathematics or Political Science, I would have recommended Michigan over NU…again, assuming that the OP liked both schools equally.</p>
<p>Alexandre,</p>
<p>Even in engineering, the choice isn’t as clear-cut. Let’s look at USN rankings first; while Mich is better in biomedical, EECS, environmental, and mechanical, they are pretty close in chemE, civil (for transportation, NU has the best transporation center in the nation), and industrial engg (difference of 0.3 or smaller in PA score). NU is better in materials. If you consider NRC rankings, they are the same overall. </p>
<p>The innovative first-year curriculum, the heavy emphasis on design, and CO-OP that alternates terms of work and school are additional features of the undergrad engineering at NU; it really depends.</p>
<p>“Even in engineering, the choice isn’t as clear-cut.”</p>
<p>Michigan’s overall rankings in undergraduate engineering are just as strong as NU’s in Econ and Chemistry when these schools are compared with each other. In reality, the choice isn’t really all that clear cut in most comparable disciplines Sam. It’s just some supporters of NU think that the school is clearly academically superior to Michigan, even though they are peers…</p>
<p>rjkofnovi, it’s obvious where your bias lies. I don’t care about rankings, but I do care about test scores as a general guide to the academic qualifications of the student body. Michigan’s ACT range is 28-32 while Northwestern’s is 31-34. That’s a pretty substantial difference.</p>
<p>Michigan’s ACT range will probably 29-33 this year. Not so much different. Considering it offers a much wider variety of disciplines and accepts thousands more undergraduates each year, besides not superscoring results like virtually all privates do, I’d say the difference is not that substantial. It’s pretty obvious to me that you put too much emphasis on one test, usually taken multiple times by applicants to top private schools by 17-18 year olds, than on other more important factors.</p>
<p>No. It’s a significant difference. Michigan is a great university, but it’s not Northwestern. As a public institution its mission is different from that of a private school. And yes, it is uncomfortably big for some people. </p>
<p>You don’t have to make everyone here like it, you know. The school is doing fine without your boosterism. :)</p>
<p>^^^And you don’t have to just assume NU is superior because it superscores ACT tests either and places a higher emphasis on them then Michigan does when accepting students. For some, Northwestern is elitist and lacks school spirit in comparison to a place like Michigan. </p>
<p>My point was and is that the OP can get an excellent and equivalent education at either school. Your point, along with some other boosters of NU, is that it is impossible since Northwestern is clearly better.</p>
<p>sally305, Northwestern students are not smarter simply because the University chooses to rely heavily on standardized test scores to evaluate applicants. Brown and Cornell have similar ACT/SAT ranges as Michigan. Some universities rely on other metrics to evaluate students. There may be a slight difference in the quality of the student body between Michigan and NU, but it is not significant.</p>
<p>Sam Lee, I agree that even in Engineering, the advantage in not clearly on Michigan’ side, neither is it in Chemistry or Economics. That is why I clearly stated that the OP should only choose NU over Michigan if he likes both universities equally. If the OP prefers Michigan to NU for personal reasons, he/she should choose Michigan, just as a student who is considering both schools for Engineering but prefers NU more than Michigan should choose NU. My point is, the two schools are roughly the same, but offer wildly different undergraduate experiences. One should choose based on fit.</p>
<p>Alexandre,</p>
<p>NU does not rely heavily on standardized test scores. If anything, it’s the public flagships that are known for being more mechanical and stats-driven in their admission than the top privates.</p>
<p>The high stats of NU is driven by the high quality of the applicant pool (already 2 years ago):</p>
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</p>
<p>When half the applicant pools already got 1420/4.0 or above and 71% of the applicants were already in the top-10%, you are going to end up with a class with high stats even if you de-emphasize standardized test scores!</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/northwestern-university/1114541-nu-overall-acceptance-rate-18-down-27-just-2-years-ago.html?highlight=class+of+2015[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/northwestern-university/1114541-nu-overall-acceptance-rate-18-down-27-just-2-years-ago.html?highlight=class+of+2015</a></p>
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</p>
<p>Absolutely right. This is a question of taste, not quality. Top to bottom, Michigan has stronger faculties, except in some fields where Northwestern stands out. On average, Northwestern has somewhat stronger students, which is not surprising given that as a state institution Michigan has an obligation to accept many more students; compare the top students at both schools and you won’t find a dime’s worth of difference (and I don’t buy the standard BS that at a big school the bottom drags down the top; my experience at Michigan was that I basically just didn’t need to interact with the bottom of the class in the classroom because I was in different classes, miles ahead of them, taking honors classes at the outset and mostly taking graduate-level classes in my junior and senior years which were, in my field at any rate, more advanced than the classes most NU juniors and seniors were taking).</p>
<p>NU is more preppy and fratty. Some people find that appealing. I find it a turn-off. But that’s a question of taste, not quality. Lots of NU people think Michigan is way too into big-time spectator sports. Which is kind of ironic, because NU actually spends tons of money trying to be competitive in big-time spectator sports, but mostly failing at it. </p>
<p>For my money, Ann Arbor is a far better college town than Evanston, even with Chicago right next door–which I think most NU students, if they’re being honest, would tell you they don’t actually use all that much. But again, that’s a question of taste.</p>
<p>As for size, both of my daughters quickly concluded Northwestern was much too big for them, but D2 is still seriously considering Michigan because she’s been accepted into the Residential College, which is essentially a small LAC housed within the larger university, with all the intimacy of a small college but ample “outside the walls” access to all the resources of a great university. Michigan actually invests a ton of resources into building these kinds of “living-learning communities” within the broader university, in my opinion with much success.</p>
<p>“sally305, Northwestern students are not smarter simply because the University chooses to rely heavily on standardized test scores to evaluate applicants. Brown and Cornell have similar ACT/SAT ranges as Michigan. Some universities rely on other metrics to evaluate students. There may be a slight difference in the quality of the student body between Michigan and NU, but it is not significant”</p>
<p>I’m not disagreeing with you; maybe Umichigan does offer acceptances based on more subjective criteria. But that argument seems like kind of a cop-out. You could make that argument for any university with less-than-stellar academic averages. </p>
<p>For instance, I’ve heard both the following arguments be made:</p>
<p>“Oh, well NYU has just as strong students as Duke, it’s just NYU doesn’t place as much emphasis on scores.”</p>
<p>“Umiami? It has a student body as strong as USC’s, it just evaluates applications more holistically.” </p>
<p>Maybe those opinions aren’t entirely untrue, but the fact is the only objective metric we can use to compare class strength is academic numbers.</p>
<p>Maybe schools like Vanderbilt, or Duke don’t place much emphasis on scores, either. Maybe they simply have such strong applicant pools that they have the luxury of evaluating significantly on subjective criteria and still matriculating a class with high SATs and GPAs.</p>
<p>“Northwestern is not known as a university that places a tremendous amount of emphasis on test scores or academic qualifications.”</p>
<p>You’ve got to be kidding me!</p>