They receive gov’t funding, so no, they actually can’t.</p>
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On most Ivy campuses there is another population that is over-represented by much more than 400%. It has never been a problem and shouldn’t be.</p>
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So I guess you’re saying that Asians have high test scores and offer nothing else to the famous environment. Hmmm</p>
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So the Asian population is actually 40% at Harvard? I never realized that. Lots of stealth Asians who actually don’t look Asian I guess, I’m sorry that the color of their skin makes them feel the need to lie and deceive the way you describe.</p>
<p>As I said before, I don’t like to get involved in this debate but I am happy to take the other side whenever there’s an unreasonable opinion on either side.</p>
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<li> They can and they do. It’s called the “holistic” process, “building a class”, and “diversity”.</li>
<li> Again, they can and do admit the “type” of students they want. The best way to see what they are looking for is to see which groups are over-represented year after year, after year…<br></li>
<li> No, that is not what I was saying. This applies to any student from any subset.</li>
<li> Yes, 30-40% is probably correct. More and more students are leaving this question blank or using it to their advantage. So don’t put much faith in student reported ethnic populations at any top U.</li>
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<p>It is also quite apparent that many colleges have basketball teams that are racially lopsided. Should colleges put a cap on basketball players of over-represented ethnicity, to recruit short asian basketball players for the sake of the educational benefits that derive from diversity? </p>
<p>^^ I wonder if anyone has ever looked at whether students with red hair are under or over-represented? These kids are all fun-loving and high scoring and add to the campus culture. They might actually be dying their hair so as not to attract attention though. </p>
<p>Good thing actually. i’d hate to be on a campus of all redheads.</p>
<p>The difference between a 2300 SAT and a 2200 is likely 3-4 more questions answered correctly in a multiple choice guessing environment. The difference is just not enough to select one student over another. Hence the need for different criteria. BTW the Asian’s having better test score data is (I believe) largely a factor of repeated testing by the same students striving for perfection,( taking the test multiple times). Also there’s the international influence, which I don’t believe is not stratified from the known data.</p>
What data do you have that suggests that Asian students take the test multiple times? Most Asian students I know are from a lower income background and so only take the test once. It sounds like you are just jealous of them performing better than you.
If only 2 candidates are being compared, then no problem. The dilemma is that the score gap between the pool of asian american admits & the pool of african american admits is 200 points, on AVERAGE. Asians are systematically being made to jump a higher bar than even white students. We’re talking about statistically significant population sample sizes, not 2 applicants. http://features.thecrimson.com/2013/frosh-survey/admissions.html
And let’s not forget the prep that is done by some to get those extra 4 questions right. My AA kid had a 33 ACT, one and done wirh one week of prep. Does that make her smarter than those who have been prepping since 7the grade? You have prepped, every weekend for years so you get a 35 and you are better qualified? Oh, her elite school did mention the one time test taking. Smart kids don’t need to do multiple tests.
I think that some poster already mentioned this, but why don’t we strive for “diversity” in athletics too? I’m Asian and I want to play bball, but I was cut from the team, a team which is almost entirely racially homogenous (and not of Asians). Why can’t we implement a cap for over represented populations in athletics too for diversity’s sake?
Honestly I think that the importance of race should be limited in admissions. I’m all for diversity but students should not automatically get a boost up or special consideration because they marked a certain box in their application. Instead, why not eliminate the race question entirely from the application? Students usually have to write supplemental questions for their application: in your essays you can discuss your race and its importance to you, and admission can decide if admitting you would increase diversity. This eliminates the problem of people who use the “race card” to their advantage without really being in touch with their culture, people who are unable to contribute significantly to student diversity.
Final line: I’m all for student diversity, but race does NOT serve as the singular indicator of how diverse a student is.
@GA2012MOM While the 33 ACT score for your daughter attending an “elite” school is certainly commendable, the issue is that for Asians it most likely wouldn’t be good enough to get them into a very top school. According to the ACT website I just looked at, a 33 ACT score could be equivalent to as low as 2140 on the SAT depending on the ACT subscores. There are very few if any Asians (at least on the results threads that I looked at for top schools) that are admitted with this kind of test score. Asians, imo, are definitely held to a higher standard of at least 100-150 pts.
Also, my entire study for the ACT exam consisted of taking four practice exams so I don’t think it’s fair for everyone to paint this picture that all Asians are prepping since the 7th grade. In fact, I don’t know anyone who has been doing anything like this, but I admit that I come from a non-competive area so I can’t speak to what goes on in these pressure cooker areas. Lastly, I was fortunate and scored highly on the ACT exam, but if I had scored a 32 or 33 (which for most should be good enough), I would have had to seriously consider retaking the exam - so I obviously don’t agree with the statement “smart kids don’t have to do multiple tests”. Sometimes, we are victims of circumstances beyond of our control.
@GA2012MOM
@Multiverse7
I’m an Asian in a highly competitive area and honestly if I had scored lower than 34 or 35 on the ACT, I would have had to retake because with a 33 and my ORM status, there’s no way I could stand out at top schools unless I had won Intel/insert amazing EC here. That’s not to say that getting a 34+ would have greatly increased my chances of admission, but as multiverse7 pointed out, Asians are held to a higher standard (at least academically).
Also, I’d like to see someone refute my sports argument. Some of my URM friends complain that they have very few role models (of their race) in STEM fields. Well, I’m an Asian and I have very few role models in basketball, football, etc. Why don’t we ever hear about asian underrepresentation in these sports?
Sorry @chasingmymd1 I don’t agree with you. After we stop playing rec league sports when we’re young, I don’t think the “everyone gets to play and gets a trophy” thing should apply. The best players should be on the court, field, ice or whatever, regardless of their race. If it tends to create a lopsided team, so be it.
I guess that is how I feel about college admissions too but this is not a popular stance I’m well aware.
@Multiverse7
I guess sarcasm doesn’t translate very well on an Internet forum. My last question was meant to be rhetorical: I was trying to put the opposing sides argument in the context of sports to show them how ridiculous it is that we “need” absolutely equal representation in everything. Let the best athletes play and the best students be admitted. Diversity should play a secondary role to academics in the admissions process.
You’re welcome to go for the gusto over there. Everything you’ve stated has been stated before and often. Have a read. The fact is that private unis can define diversity with wide discretion. If one school opts to not admit any musicians or artists or actors, it’s there prerogative. Conversely, a place like Harvard may choose to invest in great musicians, artists and actors who happen to be great academics. If I were to hazard a guess, I’d say the avg SATs of the targeted actors who are admitted to Harvard, are likely less than the STEM applicants who are courted by Harvard. Would you agree?
Thus having people from Nigeria, Romania or Brazil can also add diversity. As well as a kid from Appalachia or Compton or Brooklyn. Your opinion on the need for diversity (not to mention the attractiveness of this to many applicants) veers from Harvard’s. Like I’ve stated elsewhere, there are plenty of places that don’t place any emphasis on diversity and solely admit based on stats. And they’d LOVE to attract Harvard-viable applicants. They’d be doing back flips.
@chasinmymd1, maybe you should think outside the box…“unless I had won Intel/insert amazing EC here”. You are feeding into your own stereotype, sheesh. You seem to think it is funny to stereotype URM’s in sports…well you are doing the same to ORM’s. You can’t get into elite schools without some type of STEM award/EC/Major? It isn’t the 33 on the ACT that is going to keep you out, it is your narrow minded thinking.
@T26E4
That’s a great idea! If harvard wants to admit a group of musicians/actors/artists, then admit based on talent not on race. I understand that my opinion is different from Harvard’s and likely many other schools, but I don’t think that that alone makes my opinion any less viable. I also recognize that nothing said on CC will likely change current policy but I think that it’s important for students, parents, and educators to discuss issues like this on a public forum.
Also, thank you for linking the other thread for me; I’ll go check it out shortly. However isn’t this thread also a discussion about “race and admissions” considering that the title asks if Asians face discrimination at Harvard?