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<p>Fraternities are not for me but I am not anti- fraternity. My son was in one. My future son-in-law was in one. I have no idea how my son behaved in the fraternity. It has been a few years and I haven’t heard anything bad. :)</p>
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<p>In my case, it involved being invited to dinner at the house on Saturday, for which, when any date was invited, all of the brothers and the GF(s) dressed up–somewhat, after all, this was the 70s. :)</p>
<p>It involved spending a lot of time playing bridge, listening to music, and–gasp–smoking pot. As I said, it was the 70s. B-) In the summers, mass expeditions to the beach or the movies. Giving a hamster a Viking funeral on the Charles. A hurricane party. A Christmas in July party.</p>
<p>Never anything even faintly like the parties described in RS.</p>
<p>Most fraternities and fraternity guys are fine, including those at UVa . And my son’s fraternity had date functions and some of them were dress up type things, even in the last few years. What was described in the RS article sounded more like a fraternity party ( that maybe a fraternity member invited her to) .rather than some kind of date function but who knows. Every fraternity I’m sure does things differently and can’t be painted with a “broad brush.” </p>
<p>"PG. Your daughter went to an all girls school and that’s a good choice too. "</p>
<p>I gave my D the advice that alh references above – always be accompanied by a girlfriend, watch your drink be poured and never leave it unattended, etc. But it wasn’t specific to fraternities – it was just good advice regardless of whether her activities were at fraternities or at other parties or off-campus locations. It wasn 't “fraternity management advice,” it was “life management advice,” if that makes sense.</p>
<p>Luckily, she’s inherited my natural distaste for the entire scene!</p>
<p>“But, he’s not from a rapey house, anyway, one of the nicer ones, and there are nice houses. Still, as she said, “The bathrooms in a fraternity house just aren’t my deal. I would never spend the night there.” End of thought.”</p>
<p>Well, heck, I wouldn’t go to the bathroom in my son’s fraternity house unless the situation was dire :-). </p>
<p>I went to a college without fraternities and sororities but we had college houses…i lived with 12 women for 3 years. And we had big parties with jam packed rooms at the boys’ houses with dancing and craziness, but I don’t think we ever drank anything but beer and of course pot was prevalent so people were pretty mellow. We didn’t need to hide our drinking or get carded or slam a bunch of vodka before someone caught us. That is the root of all evil in my mind. Remember the UVa women are saying they would be asked at the door if they were 21 and of course all the kids start the evening by lying if they aren’t 21 these days. It’s pretty sad. We had one attempted rape, but it was a townie who crawled into the window in the girls dorm and ended up getting beaten on by the occupant and her tennis racquet. (wooden, heavy and wieldy in those days). He was caught climbing back out of the window by campus security. All campus parties, and they were held for all sorts of occasions also had beer flowing and plenty of the campus security hanging out keeping an eye on things. If there were other assaults we sure never heard about it so in some ways I think transparency is a good thing and i’m firmly in the camp of lowering the drinking age and getting drinking out in the open.</p>
<p>“But, :he’s not from a rapey house, anyway, one of the nicer ones” But how do you know if a house is “rapey” or not? I doubt that any parent thinks or wants to believe their son is in a “rapey” fraternity. Some people may think that any guy can be “rapey”, especially if associated with a fraternity. But , thankfully, only a small percentage of males are potential rapists. And the ones that are, whether in a fraternity or not, need to be dealt with.</p>
<p>Well I went to lots of fraternity parties like the one described in the Stone article. Men usually picked me up from my parents’ house. Sometimes from the sorority house, but most of my dates met my parents first time I went out with them. My father was pretty intimidating. Those parties had what we called jungle juice. And there were rapes. But we didn’t call it rape because in the 70s, at the tailgateU I attended, fraternity boys couldn’t possibly be guilty of rape. This was just girls not exercising good judgement. I was absolutely done with the fraternity scene sometime early in my sophomore year of college. I couldn’t have named what bothered me then. I can now: rape culture.</p>
<p>And yes, there are fraternities that aren’t like that. My son was in one. My kids all over share. I know lots more than I ever wanted to about their personal business. If one didn’t tell me something going on, another would feel compelled to fill me in. Finally I said, just tell me if you think it is dangerous or I need to intervene somehow. Otherwise don’t tell me about each other.</p>
<p>OTOH - maybe it was all misdirection. Who knows?</p>
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<p>Full disclosure: my daughter goes to our alma mater. My husband is the alumni advisor to his fraternity. We happen to actually know which houses are rapey because we also happen to know what is being reported these days.</p>
<p>That said, D is a second year and she would know which houses were by now, there are houses with reputations. People know. </p>
<p>That said, the interesting thing that is coming up right now, in investigating every report at every place, regardless of whether the girl knows the name of perpetrator, will say it, or whatnot, is that it seems that these criminals, many of them not fraternity men, are going to these parties to find victims.</p>
<p>A new policy with guest lists and outside hired people to check to make sure only those on the guest list attend, is going to be implemented soon. I would be surprised if this doesn’t become the norm. </p>
<p>ETA: I think you make a really good point, though.</p>
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<p>Presumably, “rapey” reputations can be found if one asks enough upperclass female students.</p>
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<p>Perhaps it is entirely possible that some “rapey” houses have that reputation because of insufficient self-policing at parties (including bystanders stepping in to stop potential rapes), rather than harboring actual rapists and those who encourage them. Of course, a house that actually harbors actual rapists and those who encourage them would be even more “rapey”.</p>
<p>Maybe I’m naive, but I never heard “rapey.” I heard “wild,” but just associated that with wilder parties, not sexual assault. </p>
<p>This thread has prompted me - I’m going to ask my college gf if they were aware of rapes. Who knows , perhaps I’m naive. </p>
<p>Rapey wasnt a thing when we were in school. Plus, I don’t think we called things rape then which are clearly rape.</p>
<p>I doubt a girl would talk about being raped. </p>
<p>A friend of mine was gang raped freshman year at a fraternity house. She didn’t call it that. She didn’t talk about it. She was ashamed because she’d been drinking. We all avoided that house after that, but none of us called it rapey, just a bad house. This is a “bad house.”</p>
<p>When she went to the school, they asked if she’d been drinking and if she was sure she hadn’t been flirting with the boys. They decided there was nothing that could be done. It was he said/he said/he said/he said/ she said. on the pool table. She was a virgin. She was bleeding and bruised and had a black eye. </p>
<p>She went home after first semester. </p>
<p>I have no idea what happened to her.</p>
<p>I have no idea how many girls were raped by how many guys in that house.</p>
<p>She was one of the nicest girls I ever met.</p>
<p>Oy, honestly those stories turn my stomach. I’m sorry for your friend’s experience, poetgrl. And for all young women who go through this. I seriously have had nightmares over reading the Jackie / UVA story. </p>
<p>1974 - pledge from house next door gang raped on a table in the commons room the week after rush. Blood everywhere. “Did you hear she got drunk, had sex with a bunch of guys right out in public, and was even having her period. What a slut.”</p>
<p>Couldn’t be rape. They were fraternity guys. No words to describe that event other than, “they aren’t gentlemen at that house.” I never set foot in that house after that or dated one of those fraternity men. I stayed as far away from them as possible. It was not an isolated incident. We didn’t have rapey houses, but I figured out the ones without “gentlemen” pretty quick. It left me with a distaste for the entire system. Which will be evident from my posts. Even if it isn’t the fraternity men, if outsiders do this in their house - they have created an environment where such acts are possible. imho ymmv </p>
<p>adding: I was not at that party or at any party where a rape occurred in my presence. I have no idea how I would have responded. I lived in a bubble.</p>
<p>I never heard of any rapes in frats when I was in college. Or the dorms either. But I spent most of my nights in the library studying not attending the party scene.</p>
<p>I was never in a frat (and thought they were a bunch of snobs) but when I couldn’t find anywhere to live for 1/3 of a year when I needed an extra trimester to graduate I lived in a frat house. I never saw anything other than lots of drinking. I also never even heard of any rapes from my many girlfriends who frequented frats. I don’t think roofies were even a thing then. I wonder how much they have contributed to any increase in frequency of rapes.</p>
<p>These stories break my heart. I had no idea that such horrific things happened on college campuses and were so prevalent. What outrages me more is how many college administrators knew of such things and were able to tolerate it. I always knew that there was a high incidence of rape at college, and I used to counsel my young female patients who were off to college to be very careful about how much/what they were drinking and how important it was that they kept their wits about them, but I never could have imagined the real risks out there. </p>
<p>“I used to counsel my young female patients who were off to college to be very careful about how much/what they were drinking and how important it was that they kept their wits about them, but I never could have imagined the real risks out there.”</p>
<p>But again - I gave that advice to my kids, too, but it wasn’t “fraternity avoidance advice.” It was just life advice. Regardless whether you’re at a frat party, a dorm party, an off-campus party or someplace downtown with your buddies, just don’t let yourself get so drunk that you’re not in control of your actions, vulnerable to being separated from your buddies / friends, or vulnerable to being taken advantage of by someone who is up to no good. It just doesn’t seem like advice that is specific to fraternity situations specifically, IMO. </p>
<p>It’s not. But the fact remains that fraternities are tough to identify as dangerous neighborhoods, which they can be. Of course I was no less concerned about other situations. It takes a minute to get the lay of the land and develop street smarts. Each environment is different. We guide our kids according to that. We do the best. </p>
<p>The real problem is the criminals and those protecting the criminals. </p>