<p>Brooklynmom I am from brooklyn too</p>
<p>I think the best "Hook" to HYP for a Metro NY kid is to get 1500 + SAT's (or today's equivalent ) and then just be yourself. Have the confidence to do what you want to do- be it working in a Day Camp, or a supermarket.<br>
There are way too many kids who get involved with certain activities because they think Harvard will be impressed.<br>
Honestly- the kid with great grades, SAT's a few solid activities and who shows the confidence to be himself may fare better with HYP admission than the kid who tries to do everything in order to get into HYP.
PS-- I am from Brooklyn too--SBHS class of 19__.<br>
Going to Brooklyn tonight to visit my mom.</p>
1 Like
<p>Erasmus 19---</p>
<ul>
<li><p>unhooked kids from everywhere get into HYP, hooked kids get in at a greater rate</p>
<ul>
<li>Stuy may send the largest number of kids to HYP, but its a very large sch (3500), and thus send a smaller % of its students to HYP than some other public schs and a signif smaller % than many NYC day (pvt) schools</li>
<li>as bad as it is being from NYC, it's worse coming from the suburbs (same geog aread, but w/o the cache of being a from the city)</li>
<li>don't forget that these days being a boy is a bit of a hook</li>
<li>SATs of 1500+ will put you in the running, but hardly constitutes a hook (plenty of kids w/ perfect 1600's get rejected)</li>
</ul></li>
</ul>
<p>A Stanford rep explained hooks and tips in this way: Tips push an applicant over the fence (separating the admits from the non-admits). hooks are something applicants use to get themselves across. They are stronger than tips.</p>
<p>I've got a painting that just fell off the wall because the hook fell off, so I have a new take on hooks :) I am very leery of devices that are " a bit of a hook."</p>
<p>There are guaranteed hooks, strong hooks and weak hooks. And there are tips.
Provided that applicants have minimally acceptable GPAs and SAT scores, a guaranteed hook would be being a facbrat or the child of a major donor (not talking about the $1million kind at HYP) or a famous person in one's own right (e.g. an Olympic figure skater or actor). International Olympiad gold medalist or acclaimed artist would also be a guaranteed hook (and in the case of the gold medalists, the GPAs and SAT scores would be much higher than minimally acceptable). Someone who had done extraordinary community service would have a strong hook provided it was combined with a strong record; or a URM, first-generation applicant or low SES applicant.
Weak hooks need an even stronger record and social profile. Tips might be given for gender, intended major, geography.</p>
<p>A hook is the 'catchy' bit of the app that gets the student ** to** the fence...is that your view, marite?</p>
<p>JHS suggests the unhooked rate is 50/50 from Philly. That percentage split surprises me because it's not that high from some of the Top 100 matriculating high schools-- as I reckon. In my several decades of single data point observation, many of the apps from those top schools have substantial hooks--along with their fabulous academic records.</p>
<p>btw, I am bemused by some of the visceral parent reaction to 'hook'. I had one PM that suggested I not contemplate the issue until I had 'put' as many kids into HYP as he/she had. :eek:</p>
<p>Cheers:</p>
<p>I would say a hook is what gets an application into the definite admit pile, not the "hmmm.... worth another look; let's discuss" or the " quarter finals" or "semi-finals." Hooks can be different for different colleges. A star quarterback with ho-hum stats won't be hooked at a college that has no football team, for instance. A $1 million donor's kid might be hooked at some colleges but not at others (someone told me a while ago that it now takes something like $5million to endow a chair at Harvard; I think it is possible to endow chairs for less than $1 million at lots of colleges still). An Asian-American kid would have a higher chance of getting into some highly selective small NE LACs than into a top UC, for instance. Such a kid might have as good a chance as an African-American or Hispanic (that's the impression we got 8 years ago when we first did college tours).</p>
<p>How about a homeless kid from NYC........that could be a hook if the candidate was comparable in other ways.....</p>
<p>^^ Yes. I can't remember where Liz Murray, the homeless girl who was admitted to Harvard (but later dropped out) was from. But her story certainly was noteworthy.</p>
<p>What's a "hook?" Do kids who are not legacies, URMs, recruited athletes, or developmental cases and/or celebrities or the children of celebrities get into HYP from NYC? YES. But..that said...it is HARDER. Most..not all...but most such kids have "beyond the school" recognition in at least one and often more than one field. The more outstanding the recognition, the fewer ECs you have to "shine" in. Part of the problem is that it is just a whole lot harder to "shine" at anything when there are 8 mAnillion people in your "neighborhood." </p>
<p>On the flipside, if you are first in your class at Stuy...or Collegiate..or Brearley...that's a LOT more impressive than being first in your class at American Fork H.S. in Utah. The val at American Fork might really be a BIG FISH, who can swim with the whales. However, the val could simply be a medium size fish in a pond. It's hard for admissions folks to tell. The Stuy <em>star</em> is a big fish. But the kid who is say 25% down in the class isn't. At American Fork, he might have been first in his class. </p>
<p>Let me give a few examples. You know that contest where you build bridges out of toothpicks or some such thing for physics class? Well, at my kid's NYC public magnet, there were two entries which were almost dead even. But back then, each high school could only submit one entry. People disagreed as to which of the two bridges was best--even the teachers didn't agree. But eventually, a choice was made and entered in the contest. It won for NYC. It won for NYState. It was entered into the national contest...and came out second out of the 52 finalists--50 states plus DC and Puerto Rico </p>
<p>If the kids who built the second bridge had gone to another high school in another state, they probably could have said they built the best bridge at their high school. They might have won their city. They might have won their state. But...they couldn't even claim they built the best bridge in their physics class. </p>
<p>There are all these contests for things like Coca-Cola Scholar where they assign so many points for X, Y and Z. It is almost unheard of for a NYC kid to win. Why? Because in NYC it's pretty close to impossible to have a part time job, be a star of the sports team, play in the student orchestra and be a valedictorian. I went to a supposedly good suburban high school in the Midwest..and LOTS of kids worked part time, played sports and a musical instrument and ended up with good grades. Part of the reason was that, assuming you did not have learning disabilities, if you had an IQ of 120, were academically-oriented, and studied 2-3 hours a night, you did get good grades. You had TIME to do other things. </p>
<p>At my kid's NYC public magnet, a lot of kids who tried out for orchestra were taking lessons at "pre-Julliard." The kids who ended up being "second chair"--don't know if folks actually use that term, but they weren't first chair--went to Harvard..and were first chair there. I am not exaggerating (sp?) The first chair went to Julliard. So here is this kid who wasn't first chair in high school...but was at Harvard. </p>
<p>Another true story...There is a pre-school program for gifted and talented kids at Columbia Teachers College. It may not be PC to say this, but many of the kids who enroll are kids who did not get admitted to Hunter Elementary and/or the Anderson program. In one class, there were 14 children. One died in a traffic accident. 9 of the 13 kids in the class who lived until they were high school seniors placed in the top 40 in Intel. By that time, the majority had moved out of state. Of the remaining 4, 3 were Intel semifinalists. As far as I know, no journal has picked this up. What happened is just that when proud parents looked over the list of semifinalists and finalists, they recognized the names of their kids' pre-school classmates. </p>
<p>So, can you get into HYP if you are from NYC and aren't a legacy, recruited athlete or URM? YES. But a lot of the kids who are rejected would have gotten in if they were from somewhere else.</p>
<p>second chair in NYC is probably the equivalent of first chair in the rest of the world--save Moscow?</p>
<p>
[quote]
At my kid's NYC public magnet, a lot of kids who tried out for orchestra were taking lessons at "pre-Julliard." The kids who ended up being "second chair"--don't know if folks actually use that term, but they weren't first chair--went to Harvard..and were first chair there. I am not exaggerating (sp?) The first chair went to Julliard. So here is this kid who wasn't first chair in high school...but was at Harvard.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That's a corollary of being at a school well known not only for its academics but also for the excellence of its music students: you do not have to be val or sal. HYP accept multiple students from some schools (Boston Latin, Roxbury Latin, Andover, Exeter, and so on) because they know the top or near top students are excellent. A student, however, coming from Podunk High in the middle of nowhere, would have a geographical tip but s/he would probably be the only one from that school accepted to HYP.</p>
<p>three students accepted into yale from regular nyc public plus all other ivies were represented</p>
<p>^^^ Say what??</p>
<p>I'm actually surprised to read that people think it's difficult to get into HYP from NYC. I don't know about the publics, but I would say many of the fine private schools in NYC are direct feeders to HYP. In fact, I know a family whose kid went to Trinity. In her graduating class (small class, but I don't know the exact number), seven were accepted and went to Harvard. (Many others went on to other Ivys). The parents were stunned, since the stats of these kids just weren't that impressive, nor had they done anything very outstanding--at all; only one out of the seven was a legacy. So what helped them? Well, the Trinity admissions director used to be on the admissions staff at Harvard, so had a direct line to them. </p>
<p>I'm sure that's not unusual at many of the privates in NYC. So maybe that is a hook, and you're only asking if one can get in from a NYC public school?</p>
<p>spsdds-</p>
<p>Three off to Yale and other Ivies isn't that unusual, even at a "regular" public hs b/c the classes are so large. D3's very popular Manhattan public sch is considered at 1200 students. Of the approx 300 grands, a number go to to schs every year - - that's a handful out of 300+. So it's not surprising that shcs w/ graduating classes b/w 600 and 800 place a 20-50 kids at top colleges. I know unhooked kids from public schs who have enrolled at Williams, Brown, Wesleyan, Amherst, etc. And even the most notorious publics ( ie: Boys and Girls HS in Bklyn) regualraly send a few kids to top college. But these kids are pretty much stat insignif in terms of the overall public sch pop.</p>
<p>Now check out the stats at even a second/third tier day sch like Calhoun - - graduating class of 80+ with approx. 15-18 enrolling at top colleges. (NB: this is a shc where the first year of sci isn't even standard bio or chem, which has no AP classes and which offers "intro to pre-calc" as a 4th year math class - - I can't imagine what would happen if these kids had to take the annual Regents exams!). It certainly looks like attending ANY pvt sch is at least a tip.</p>
<p>
[quote]
So what helped them? Well, the Trinity admissions director used to be on the admissions staff at Harvard, so had a direct line to them.</p>
<p>I'm sure that's not unusual at many of the privates in NYC. So maybe that is a hook, and you're only asking if one can get in from a NYC public school?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'd say that's a hook or a major tip. 1. school known to Ivies. 2. GC used to be on staff of Ivy. Yep. It should be noted that some of the better known public schools have GCs who also know the admission staffs at a number of colleges. It gives their students a major advantage if they can advocate for them.</p>
<p>A friend who worked in admissions at a top 20 LAC was recently hired by L'vlle as a college counselor. Likewise, director of college counseling at D2's BS also came from to 15 LAC. At the very least, the college counseling staff at pvt schs are alumni of top colleges (Calhoun college advisor is, I believe, a Wesleyan alum). Yeah, it helps a lot.</p>
<p>Okay, I feel like an idiot, what is HYP?</p>
<p>and while we're at it, what is LAC?</p>
<p>No Need to feel like an idiot (it took a moment for many of us to figure it out) Harvard, Yale, Princeton</p>