NYT Graphic: An analysis of migration patterns among college freshmen

Parents Forum
81

That’s a north side/northwest side perspective, @Pizzagirl. From west suburban Naperville, UIUC is actually a little closer. Same is true anywhere in the south or southwest suburbs or anywhere on the South Side of the city.

But I get your point. Schools like Notre Dame, Purdue, and Marquette are also closer to Chicago than is UIUC. Other popular destinations like Iowa, Indiana U, and Michigan are a bit farther, but perhaps only an hour or two additional driving time than UIUC, which is not particularly convenient to get to from the Chicago area. Still, admissions stats suggest UIUC is getting a healthier share of the state’s top students than, e.g., Rutgers.

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@bclintonk, IL just has excessive talent, whatcanIsay.

In seriousness, UIUC being top-ranked in engineering, CS, and accounting helps a lot.

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“a north side/northwest side perspective, @Pizzagirl. From west suburban Naperville, UIUC is actually a little closer. Same is true anywhere in the south or southwest suburbs or anywhere on the South Side of the city.”

I live in the western suburbs, very close to Naperville. I still think of Madison as closer than UIUC. But your point is well taken from the southern suburbs.

84

I also live in Naperville, and Madison and UIUC are each about a 2-1/2 hour drive. On the other hand, I can drive southwest for half an hour and still be in Naperville, so I guess it depends where exactly you live. This town covers a lot of ground.

85

Maybe it’s that I feel there is more civilization on the road to Madison than on the road to Champaign. I don’t live in Naperville, but fairly close.

86

^ Bourbonnais is offended.

87

Couldn’t tell you where Bourbonnais was without the Google :slight_smile:

88

Is that some sort of safe (city) space? (sorry, couldn’t resist)

89

“Still, admissions stats suggest UIUC is getting a healthier share of the state’s top students than, e.g., Rutgers.”

I would say they do okay with the upper middle group. At least at our school, few of the top group attend UIUC, but yes, more than Rutgers.

UIUC does offer solid programs, but tuition is high for in-state, the Chinese students seem to get preference for the best majors, the campus is in the middle of nowhere, Rauner keeps slashing the budget, changing majors can be very difficult, sports aren’t very good, the campus is not very attractive, there is some sort of administrative scandal every couple of years, they struggle to retain their best professors, and the State’s citizens do no support their flagship like they do in Wisconsin, Michigan, or Pennsylvania.

90

@Much2learn, if you’ve noticed, WI has been slashing funding to all publics (including UW-Madison), UMich’s state funding has dropped dramatically over the years (they do so well mainly because they have built an endowment that rivals the size of top privates), and PSU now gets some ridiculously small part of their budget funded by PA (2% or something like that).

And PSU’s in-state and UMich’s upperclassmen in-state tuition levels are about as high as UIUC’s if not higher.

91

I came to post this. Another reason kids leave Illinois, at least in our High School, is the desire to attend a “Big 10” school. There is a definite hierarchy of schools, and schools in the Big Ten are viewed as more desirable than others even if their stats are similar or inferior.

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??? UIUC IS a B1G school. Although I think NU’s Chicagoland marketing campaign “Chicago’s Big 10 Team” has been successful in changing alliances somewhat.

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"@Much2learn, if you’ve noticed, WI has been slashing funding to all publics (including UW-Madison), UMich’s state funding has dropped dramatically over the years (they do so well mainly because they have built an endowment that rivals the size of top privates), and PSU now gets some ridiculously small part of their budget funded by PA (2% or something like that).

And PSU’s in-state and UMich’s upperclassmen in-state tuition levels are about as high as UIUC’s if not higher."

It is true that all state flagships have issues to manage. I think the challenge for UIUC is that they seem to have so many of them in concurrently.

The high in-state tuition for example is less of a problem when citizens of you state have a strong emotional attachment to their flagships. They pass that attachment to their kids, who then really want to attend. Michigan, Wisconsin, Penn State, and even Michigan State have that type of instate citizen attachment to a much greater extent than Illinois. Lack of citizen attachment is made worse for Illinois by the fact that when they admit so many foreign students who then go back home, they also reduce the size of their in-state or even in-country alumni base.

Similarly, over the last 10 years, students have shown a clear preference for schools with attractive campuses that are in or in proximity to cities or in college towns. UIUC is fairly low on that list too.

The advantage that UIUC does have is that they are in a very populated state, so they don’t need to draw a high percentage of the state’s graduating class. This is supporting them in the short run.

UIUC has some outstanding programs, but I think they have not done a good job of establishing an attachment to the school as a beloved and very high quality institution, among the general population in Illinois, and that hurts them in many ways. If they could stay scandal free, and develop a proactive plan work to develop that image of a fun place, where students can get a world class education, they would really benefit from that. I view them as sort of the opposite of the schools that market week and game the rankings. UIUC is actually a better school than the perception, but do not seem to take any steps to address that issue. If they don’t address it, then over time, they fall to the level where people believe they are. I am just not sure that the state government or the administration are personally invested enough to do what needs to be done. When I start seeing Illinois citizens talking about their flagship with half the fervor of Michigan or Wisconsin citizens, I will know that they are getting somewhere.

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@ellemom “??? UIUC IS a B1G school. Although I think NU’s Chicagoland marketing campaign “Chicago’s Big 10 Team” has been successful in changing alliances somewhat.”

I think the omitted the word “certain.” Perhaps he meant that “certain” B1G schools are viewed as more fun and desirable. Yes, Illinois is B1G, but it is sort of the Eeyore of the B1G. They just don’t convey a fun, exciting image that attracts students with options. I think they can do a much better job of establishing a positive, fun, high-quality image, but they have chosen not to for whatever reason.

If I am wrong and Zinhead does not know that they are B1G, then that bolsters my point even more about lack of an image even more. For example, I suspect there is virtually not a resident in the state of Michigan who does not know which two schools in their state are B1G. Everyone knows.

95

I think you’re right about the image problem for UIUC. Its academic rep is also extremely uneven—very high for the majors that are hard to get into (engineering, accounting, etc.) but so-so in terms of general liberal arts areas. D, who is interested in public health and was considering a premed track, didn’t seriously consider it. (Beyond politely agreeing to a campus visit, which did little to change her mind.)

I do like the “Eeyore of the B1G” moniker. :slight_smile:

96

This is an interesting perception. UIUC’s undergrad student body is 72% in-state, which is higher than Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, Indiana, Purdue, or Penn State. Illinois does have a large international student base, about 17% of undergrads, but only about 11% of UIUC undergrads come from U.S. states other than Illinois, according to UIUC’s latest statistical abstract. In contrast, Michigan’s undergrad student body is about 35% OOS, and recent classes have been closer to 40%. In actual numbers, there’s no shortage of Illinois residents attending UIUC. Yet I think the underlying point, that there’s not a lot of emotional resonance between the people of Illinois and their public flagship, has some validity.

UIUC does seem to have a more generic image than some other Big Ten schools. The campus is huge and not particularly attractive or distinguished. There’s some college town appeal, but not as much as Madison or Ann Arbor, or perhaps even Iowa City or Bloomington. You’ve got to drive through seemingly endless miles of flat corn and soybean fields to get there from Chicago, and then you’re surrounded by more endless miles of flat corn and soybean fields. UIUC-logo sports apparel sales are sluggish, perhaps partly because the sports teams have been lackluster lately and partly because the orange-and-blue colors and generic-looking block 'I" are, like the campus, neither particularly attractive nor distinguished. It’s a darned good school, but it’s not a much-loved school, and it doesn’t seem to care so much about that.

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@bclintonk "Illinois does have a large international student base, about 17% of undergrads, but only about 11% of UIUC undergrads come from U.S. states other than Illinois, according to UIUC’s latest statistical abstract. In contrast, Michigan’s undergrad student body is about 35% OOS, and recent classes have been closer to 40%. "

For Michigan this is good because combined with the almost irrational enthusiasm of its base, it has established a broad national following and the long term benefits that go with being a good draw nationally.

“It’s a darned good school, but it’s not a much-loved school, and it doesn’t seem to care so much about that.”

I agree, and I think that image that - you will get a great education but it won’t be much fun - has a cost. Oddly, they have done the hardest part, but they seem like they don’t care about the perception that needs to change to take them to the next level. I agree that the perception/image should not matter as much as it does, but that is just the way it is. If added a few fairly inexpensive, high buzz features to campus, and marketed the school as a fun, exciting place to get a world-class education, that could make a significant difference in the students they attract.

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Perhaps it’s time to make Eeyore the school mascot. Just trade out the purple bow for an orange one. They could even ask Disney to be a sponsor and sport the Disney logo on their uniforms. Nike Schmike. :wink:

99

As someone who follows University of Illinois closely, I’ve always thought good sports teams would do wonders for raising the school’s profile. Like someone mentioned, Illinois has the quality educational programs to make it talked alongside more in the same breath as schools like Michigan, Cal, UVA…

I think the general public, especially on the coasts, underestimate how strong Illinois is, especially in important fields of the future like STEM. Interestingly, those in academia seem to think highly of UIUC, giving it 4.0 US News peer rating which is identical to Georgetown and Vanderbilt. Also, someone mentioned they thought Illinois’ campus wasn’t attractive or distinguished. To the contrary, I’ve found UIUC’s campus VERY impressive. I think there are few schools in the country that can compare to the facilities Illinois has, especially in the sciences. Also, I think their main quad with the dome is very attractive.

Illinois is getting a new president this year, so it will be interesting to see if he addresses the perception gap in his tenure.

100

Yes, I am well aware that UIUC is a Big 10 school. What I was referring to was the lack of interest in state schools other than UIUC. Students at our school would much rather go to Iowa, Michigan State or Nebraska than Illinois State, UIC or any of the Illinois directionals. Michigan and Wisconsin are generally considered more desirable than UIUC for many majors.