NYT: Law Schools’ Applications Fall as Costs Rise and Jobs Are Cut

Parents Forum
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<p>a shot rings out. On a small farm in Kansas, a boy was growing up</p>

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“We are going through a revolution in law with a time bomb on our admissions books,” said William D. Henderson, a professor of law at Indiana University, who has written extensively on the issue. “Thirty years ago if you were looking to get on the escalator to upward mobility, you went to business or law school. Today, the law school escalator is broken.”
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“In the ’80s and ’90s, a liberal arts graduate who didn’t know what to do went to law school,” Professor Henderson of Indiana said. “Now you get $120,000 in debt and a default plan of last resort whose value is just too speculative. Students are voting with their feet. There are going to be massive layoffs in law schools this fall. We won’t have the bodies we need to meet the payroll.”

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<p>I'd say that there is nothing unique about law here. It was more visible as a high status/high pay profession but just as prospective consumers/students have gotten more circumspect about what they are buying, this same type of cost benefit analysis can hit other degrees.</p>

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<p>I guess the question is- do we need that many more attorneys or is it saturated?</p>

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<p>I thought the law school story and the law school escalator being broken was interesting.</p>

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<p>Or perhaps entire law schools closed…</p>

<p>Also, what other degrees may be hit by either low pay (even if there is a documented shortage) or poor job prospects?</p>

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<p>Lawyer jobs have been growing very slowly in the last 20 years. and supply keeps rising.</p>

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<p>I wonder how much is driven by undergrads already having too much debt.</p>

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<p>It was a self-created problem - the number of graduates from US Law Schools dramatically increased over the last 25 years. Some were for-profits, and some were universities that thought law schools would be profitable.</p>

<p>In response, some law schools (such as Temple) are doing the right thing and shrinking themselves to maintain quality. Others like Penn State say they will reduce admission standards to try to fill seats. The Dean who made that announcement a few months ago just went to China to run a new law school there.</p>

<p><a href=“http://press.kaptest.com/press-releases/kaplan-test-prep-survey-facing-a-tough-employment-landscape-for-new-lawyers-law-schools-cut-the-size-of-their-entering-classes-and-revise-curriculum-to-adapt-to-evolving-market[/url]”>http://press.kaptest.com/press-releases/kaplan-test-prep-survey-facing-a-tough-employment-landscape-for-new-lawyers-law-schools-cut-the-size-of-their-entering-classes-and-revise-curriculum-to-adapt-to-evolving-market&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Article about the decrease in people taking the LSAT, the total increase in the number of lawyers, and the increasing number of law schools that are shrinking their incoming classes.</p>

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<p>I just read a recent article in the Wall Street Journal that described how new law schools are still being opened - such as in Indiana and Texas.</p>

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<p>I remember taking the LSATs and contemplating law school (I was accepted) in the late 70s. Suddenly the media, my friends, adults were all saying “too many lawyers” and “no jobs” and everyone turned 45 degrees and entered MBA programs (which I did I admit) and by the end of that everyone was saying “too many MBAs” and “no jobs.” Herd mentality. If someone really wants to go to law school why not go. There were three departments in my former employer that were headed by people with law degrees: Human Resources, Intellectual Property, and Labor Relations. You don’t have to “practice law” with a law degree. If it adds value to something else you will be doing and it’s something that will enrich you, go for it.</p>

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<p>this. </p>

<p>I think that the undergrad school is just taking so much money out of the equation up front. For many kids.</p>

<p>I also agree with Momofthree. If you want to go to law school, you might as well go. I know plenty of law grads who don’t practice law, but they do quite well in life. </p>

<p>if you can afford it.</p>

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<p>The undergrad school debt is only additional pains. Even if one has no undergrad debt should think twice considering 3 years of law school can run as high as $200k+…and that’s before living expenses and interest on any loans taken. </p>

<p>Considering most legal jobs even before the recession don’t pay anywhere near $160k starting salaries that are the domain of the lucky tiny minority of law grads dubiously lucky to land biglaw jobs*, even most who land lawyer gigs will have to live under a heavy debt load for a decade or two until it’s all paid off. </p>

<p>And I am assuming no undergrad debt in the above case. You can imagine how much worse it is for someone with some undergrad debt. One friend who has law school debt and only two years of undergrad debt from NYU undergrad is laboring under half-million in debt while working a legal job making around $30k/year. </p>

<p>Did I mention he was one of the lucky few from his 2008 law school graduating class to even have a legal job…or any job to speak of?</p>

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<li>Dubiously lucky because your hours will not only be long(70-80 is “standard”), but also extremely unpredictable. Firm effectively owns you 24/7. There’s also no guarantee you won’t be asked to leave at any point due to “poor performance/fit” or because the firm’s budget cannot support another associate all of a sudden.</li>
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