<p>Cool chart.Do these claims have any veracity whatsoever</p>
<p>The</a> Law School Bubble</p>
<p>Some truth to it, obviously.</p>
<p>Did you mean “are these claims true?”</p>
<p>If you did, then yes.</p>
<p>from what I saw law school applications, at least for the top law schools, have decreased very recently. The market is expected to grow at a normal rate over the next few years and the economy improving will help.</p>
<p>Of course the great supply of lawyers will likely continue to push wages down. Tuition for all schools, not just law, has become an absurd joke recently. </p>
<p>So pretty much go into Law if you really want to be a lawyer and have the ability to go to a good school (top 50) and not suffer enormous debt. The median salaries for top school grads is still really high in the private sector. Even if you take into account some misreporting by the law schools the numbers are still impressive. </p>
<p>The school you go to and how you do appear to be everything. If you want to be a lawyer don’t flinch at these scare tactics, just strongly consider your position, abilities, and options.</p>
<p>Yes it’s true. Obviously there will always be a certain number of new lawyers that make a lot of money (sufficient to justify the typical significant long term financial opportunity cost of going to law school in the first place) and carve out a strong career for themselves, but that’s now become the exception rather than the rule. Everyone think’s they’re going to be the exception. Most are not. </p>
<p>Applications to law schools may have fallen off slightly, but schools at all levels are still pumping out new lawyers at a pace that far far exceeds market needs. </p>
<p>The next 10 years in legal education are going to be quite interesting. Law school certainly isn’t getting any cheaper but the value of a law degree, as seen by the market, has certainly plummeted and remains in a downward spiral. </p>
<p>People can’t just keep taking out loans to get a degree where the job the end up landing may only have salary that significantly less than their outstanding loan balance. The math just doesn’t work.</p>
<p>I dont know why students are lining up to have a chance at working 80 - 100 hours a week as a Big Law drone in the first place. Seems like a big risk if you are going to end up paying between 150-200k for law school.</p>
<p>I plan on doing well on the LSAT, get a stipend to a good but not elite law school, and working in the public sector. But hey thats just me</p>
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<p>Nowadays, the conventional wisdom from current law schools and a bunch of laid of attorneys is that only go to law school if:</p>
<p>1) You failed to land I-banking or decent consulting gigs after college,
2) You aced LSAT and can attend a top ten law school, or a top 30 law school on substantial scholarship,
3) You would not mind becoming a lawyer,
4) You are ready to bust your as$ once you are at law school, in order to hopefully land a decent law job, and
5) Paying for law school tuitions (200k) sticker and taking out loans to do so would be only potentially worth the risk and cost if you go to HYSCCN, or the top 6 law schools in the nation. If you go T-20 or T-30 paying sticker, chances are you will get screwed really, really hard.</p>
<p>These above criteria imply that in many circumstances for many people, they would be better off not bothering with law school.</p>
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<p>First, outside of biglaw, most legal jobs pay like $hit. You would be lucky to make 45k a year outside of biglaw. </p>
<p>Second, many law students and current attorneys today are sturggling to get a JOB. We are not talking about a six figure, prestigious, big-frim jobs. Many simply don’t have a paying legal job lined up. Don’t assume that getting that public interest gig is going to be easy. In fact, getting a job in public sector (government, public interest, etc) is very competitive. Many times than not, people who can’t get biglaw are screwed because they can’t get any other types of a paying legal gig. I personally know several people who recently graduated from T-14 law schools (these folks are from my high school) who are jobless; and they were telling me they would feel lucky to land a paralegal gig paying 45k a year.</p>
<p>Most legal jobs pay like ****? Then how come the median salary for an experienced lawyer is 6 figures? Or that the median income for recently graduated law students from schools WELL BELOW the t14 is still better than 45k? I know that law schools alter their statistics but unless they are flat out lying these numbers are respectable.</p>
<p>Based on other employment statistics I refuse to believe that the field is as bad as sites like collegeconfidential paint it out to be. Many UVA grads working 70 hours a week making 35k the rest of their lives? give me a break.</p>
<p>Yes the economy kicked the field in the ass just like many others. But it is silly to think it won’t get better. Like stated earlier I don’t want to be a lawyer for the $$$ because I know I won’t enjoy BIG LAW work. If I can get into a good law school (from the 50-20 range) for cheap then I am going to strongly consider it.</p>
<p>What else am I going to do with a Finance and Economics degree from Kentucky? Get a job in banking? They have arguably been hit harder by the recession than the field of law. Try a career in sales or another form of business? Not mentally challenging enough or enjoyable for someone like me.</p>
<p>[Empirical</a> Legal Studies: Distribution of 2006 Starting Salaries: Best Graphic Chart of the Year](<a href=“Empirical Legal Studies”>Empirical Legal Studies: Distribution of 2006 Starting Salaries: Best Graphic Chart of the Year)</p>
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<p>Bro, you need to do some research. The starting salaries for all legal jobs display bimodal model you would have learned in an statistics course - that is, there are noticeable numbers of jobs paying at 160k (BigLaw) and other cluster of jobs paying around 45-50k a year, with not much other types of jobs that offer salaries in between these two clusters. Basically, it is all tears and sorrows if you strike out OCI and don’t land Biglaw. Worst case scenario is having six figure debt with a job paying 45k, or straight up unemployed. (just like many recent law graduates) Frankly, even a waitor or bartender could be pulling 40k a year - the salary level that many newly minted lawyers are faced with today.</p>
<p>And, here is a very important caveat: Unless you had BigLaw or some type of law firm on your resume immediately after law school graduation, you will almost not likely to get other decent firm jobs paying decent amount, or decent in-house jobs later on. Most of decent-paying legal jobs require you to have several years of law firm experience. And, if you strike out and don’t get the chance to even start your law firm career fresh out of law school - you can forget about practicing law as an attorney. (Although I am not talking about Public Interest here)</p>
<p>The median salary you are citing is the median salary for all practicing lawyers, not starting salary. Here again, I urge you to learn what ‘median’ implies, within the context I explained above. The median salary you refer to obviously reflects 1) all lawyers 2) and only ‘practicing’ lawyers - not those unemployed law grads and attorneys.</p>
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<p>Even if you graduate from Harvard Law School, if you don’t land BigLaw, you are most likely to be stuck in a job paying around 40-50k a year. (If you can actually find a legal job) With a mountain of debt. My brother just finished his law school from University of Michigan. He estimates more than a quarter of the graduating class graduated without any sort of a legal JOB. Law school is basically like a gamble. The higher ranked your law school, the less risk of graduating unemployed. Hence, it may be better to not even bother with law schools that are ranked low since it is a bad bet. </p>
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<p>All I would say is it is up to you to decide the risk and potential reward. If you are fortunate to ace LSAT and get into a top ten school, I would urge you to go and bust your as$. But, to attend a T-50 paying sticker money because you can’t figure out what else to do with life? There is a very high probability that you will get screwed really hard. And, going into sales or general ‘business’, imo, is the credited move if the best alternative is your acceptance to a T-50 law school. It is unlikely that there will be much of salary diffential. And, you just saved a chunk of tuition money and 3 years of opportunity cost. </p>
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<p>The real problem is law is a very unforgiving field. Getting a good legal job is like a one-shot deal. 2L OCI. If you don’t land something then, you never will sniff air inside a BigLaw office building. You mentioned you don’t want BigLaw. That is fine. But, you should also note that many public interest/government gigs are very difficult to get, if not harder to get, than BigLaw. People from schools ranked in top 20-50 range nowadays are struggling to just get a job in the legal sector. Not something in six figures, not something prestigious. Just a JOB. You should do some serious research on this before committing serious money and 3 years of your life. And, if you do insist on going to a law school, even a low ranked one, be prepared to rank near at least top quarter of your class and hustle your as$ to get jobs.</p>
<p>One additional point facing the masses of ‘unsuccesfull’ law school grads is that the JD is not a terribly versatile degree… or at least in the mind of employers. </p>
<p>Are companies going to hire the person with 3 additional years of experience or the person with a freshly minted JD who can’t find work as an attorney? In most cases they’re going to hire the experienced person.</p>
<p>It’s the massive investment (cost of law school) and the very questionable prospects of ever seeing any return (earnings potential over not going to law school after also taking into account the 3 year opportunity cost) that makes the math of law school so crazy.</p>
<p>P.S. bluedevilmike’s chart should be required reading for anyone considering law school. It’s not the determined educated folks that worry me. What worries me, or at least who I feel sorry for, are the masses that continue to mortgage their future and flood into law schools without understanding even the most basic facts about where the industry is and where it’s going.</p>
<p>Wow rocketman you are right, the distribution on that chart is amazing…</p>
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<p>JD is a useless degree - outside of law. Many, many law grads today would kill to get a 60-70k ‘business’ job. People also say that JD on your resume is a stain you can’t wash off - employers outside of law view you as a potential flight risk that may leave the company as soon as they can find a legal job paying higher. Lastly, JD doesn’t teach you any practical skills related to any jobs - they just teach you how to ‘think’ like lawyers.</p>
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<p>I agree. Somehow and for some reason, I see too many people going to law schools without knowing what ‘BigLaw’ is. They just assume six-figure jobs are waiting in front of them. Anyone semi-intelligent should be able to find out where the industry stands and the schools’ job placements by doing a ten-minute google search.</p>
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<p>Attending a law school outside of T-14 is the kiss of death.</p>
<p>WOW…Learnt a lot…Scary out there</p>
<p>Thank you for providing all this sobering information! I have a question about job prospects for international students. Do international law students find it more difficult to land good legal jobs (assuming they go to top 6 law schools)?</p>