Another thing to keep in mind is that aspiring musical theater and art majors don’t usually get the admission breaks athletic admits to many Div I universities…including elite ones get in order to recruit them onto their teams.
In fact, applying as a performing art major can sometimes result in a much harder admissions process than applying to the same school’s Arts & Science’s division as is the case at Oberlin, my alma mater.
Knew of several classmates who opted to attend the Arts & Sciences college after getting flat-out rejected by the conservatory. Some were admitted to comparable conservatories like Peabody and the NEC so it wasn’t as if they didn’t have the performing art chops.
That’s what they actually do in many foreign countries.
Athletes who want to go to the next level either study in a dedicated Physical Education/Athletics department of a comprehensive university if available or they apply to and attend universities dedicated to Physical Education/Athletics.
I also thought this was an interesting quote from the article:
This goes some way to explain, in my opinion, why motivated Asian kids do very well in areas that require a lot of hard work, but perhaps not quite as well in some areas (such as admission to the most selective schools) that require something different from hard work. Indeed, in my opinion, too much hard work can be counterproductive if it prevents students from devoting time to the sorts of extracurriculars that the most selective schools are looking for.
I should add that the OCR decision on Princeton is pretty big news. I haven’t seen it discussed yet elsewhere on CC, but if I’m not mistaken, that’s the final end of the famous Jian Li case, the kid who was admitted to Yale, but not Princeton or Harvard–and then brought a federal claim against Princeton (but not Harvard)–and then transferred from Yale to Harvard. I think he must have graduated in 2010 or something. I’m gratified, because I accurately predicted that his case would go nowhere, because there would be no proof of discrimination.
“This goes some way to explain, in my opinion, why motivated Asian kids do very well in areas that require a lot of hard work, but perhaps not quite as well in some areas (such as admission to the most selective schools) that require something different from hard work. Indeed, in my opinion, too much hard work can be counterproductive if it prevents students from devoting time to the sorts of extracurriculars that the most selective schools are looking for.”
I think this is part of the issue, but I still think that if applications and names were removed from the applications, more Asians would be admitted, and I am talking about publics and private schools.
“I accurately predicted that his case would go nowhere, because there would be no proof of discrimination.”
The only evidence is outcome based. You could statistically demonstrate this bias against the group, but not against the individual.
No they are looking for real stuff on the resumes. My kid had a letter from a professor saying my kid wrote a program for analyzing chemicals that no one in the lab knew how to do. It saved them hours of time to do the analysis and ended up being used and acknowleged by many other labs as well. He had another letter from a firm he worked for about how he was able to meet a completely unrealistic deadline because he knew my son would devote his spring break to getting the project done. Real world experiences that are useful. Admissions officers aren’t dummies.
DS once said he thought many students he happened to know padded their resume. The number and seemingly quality of achievement can only be achieved by a “superman/superwoman”.
This may be what these schools (or even our society as a whole) encourage the youngsters to do, as if being “normal” is not good. Correct me if I am wrong here: in English, being average seems to have the negative meaning in it, or not trying their best or not being smart enough. Everyone seems to be looking for the “Wow” factor, and the next shining star.
@zobroward “much2learn… so all the kids with the silly padded resume
founder and president of diabetes is bad (grades 9-12)
volunteered at sad flat tires ( a support group for flat tires…we let tires know it is ok to be flat) 9-12 grade…co founder
recycle Manhattan (say no to tossing bottle caps) grades 10-12 founder
you mean those people are what the ivies are looking for?”
No, I am not saying that at all. How did you leap from padded resumes are good from “I think this is part of the issue, but I still think that if applications and names were removed from the applications, more Asians would be admitted, and I am talking about publics and private schools” ?
Are you suggesting that the silly padded resumes mostly come from Asian students?
That is a stretch. We have a long way to go before we worry about that.
We can start with getting people focused on just graduating from HS. No one is expecting everyone to be at the top of their class and headed on to an Ivy League school.
So what?
There is also a 94.71% correlation between per capita cheese consumption and the number of people who die from getting tangled in their bed sheets (see “spurious correlations”)
Correlation does not equal causation.
More importantly, there is also a correlation between people who care about education and their ability to earn money and succeed in the school and the workplace.
Besides, after adjusting for difference in student characteristics. you get:
bottom income quartile: 70% graduation rates:
Top income quartile: 76% graduation rates.
Yes, but the asians who prep for the stuy test are disproportionately poor compared to other racial groups. A previous poster was making the argument that academic success is a function of family income. The stuy demographics would indicate that academic success is a function of PREPARATION, regardless of income.
…just a greater variation within the Asian population? Highest median income, highest poverty rate too? Stats skewed by very high earners at the top?
Are the Stuy kids coming from the poorer families or the richer ones? What role does the cultural emphasis on education/getting into Stuy play regardless of the wealth of the family?
Your post makes it sound like Asians are poorer than anyone else in NYC, but they aren’t…on average they are wealthier. But there are more under the poverty line.
Your linked article is 16 years old, skyoverme, and looks only at flagship state u’s.
And GMT, was talking about the relationship between parents/family income and college graduation rates, not HS. but your point is interesting- that Stuy is over 70% asian, and admissions are strictly based on an admissions testing Which is what this thread was all about.
When other racial groups complained about access to stuy test prep, the city offered those groups free test prep, but the poor asian kids travelled across town to attend the prep sessions.