<p>“I think that subject is really at the core of just about everything we do. If you study humanities or political systems or sciences in general, philosophy is really the mother ship from which all of these disciplines grow.”</p>
<p>Wait a minute, isn't Classics the mother ship from which all of those disciplines grow?</p>
<p>Here is a more recent average starting salary report...</p>
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Wait a minute, isn't Classics the mother ship from which all of those disciplines grow?
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No? The most well-known classics are philosophy texts. Philosophy is responsible for math, which is in turn responsible for every other science, while philosophy in a fragmented from mathematics form is responsible for every social science discipline.</p>
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Payne, majoring in philosophy almost requires grad school - it teaches you how to think, which isn't going to land a lot of high-paying specialty jobs right off the bat, like engineering. That graph is /starting/ salaries. Is there a 10 or 15 year projection of salaries by major, when philosophy majors are done with grad school?
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Ceteris paribus, virtually any grad school major can be just as good with an engineering degree or business degree or hard science degree as with a philosophy degree.</p>
<p>So, I reiterate, do not choose philosophy for career options - because it's horrible.</p>
<p>@crs1909</p>
<p>Hey, I'm going to be doing chemical engineering in the fall. I don't think I'm going to use it in the workplace though (unless I get rejected from med schools).</p>
<p>Philosophy majors do very well on the LSAT, GRE, GMAT and the MCAT. English majors as well.</p>
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Philosophy majors do very well on the LSAT, GRE, GMAT and the MCAT. English majors as well.
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I've never found any evidence that that's because of the education. It probably just has to do with the IQ of the students.</p>
<p>I think it has to do with the logical deduction, critical analysis and the vocabulary skills picked up in the majors.</p>
<p>Let me see if I understand you, Mr. Payne.</p>
<p>You think it's more logical that the reason philosophy majors do better (generally speaking) on grad school exams is solely because of the caliber of the student choosing the major? and not because of the education bundled along with said major?</p>
<p>And if this is indeed your standpoint, wouldn't it stand to reason that if these amazingly intelligent philosophy majors can do so well on grad school exams (without any prior training, mind you), that they wouldn't have any trouble applying their stellar intellectual skills to other fields just as easily?</p>
<p>Sounds illogical to me.</p>
<p>Here's a link to 2007</a> starting salary data for various majors. Philosophy isn't listed, but English, History, Political Science, Psychology, and Sociology are all clustered in a tight range of $31K-$34K. Business-related majors fall between $40K-$50K, and engineering majors are in the $50K-$60K range.</p>
<p>So, on the face of it, it doesn't look like humanities majors fare very well financially compared to other majors. Before we say "case closed," though, there are a few other factors to consider:</p>
<p>1) These are averages. Most humanities majors may not be planning a career in business and may not prepare themselves for higher salaries by taking business coursework, seeking excellent internships, etc. A philosophy major who has thought just about philosophy for four years will have a tougher go of launching a business career.</p>
<p>2) Many careers for humanities majors require degrees beyond the bachelor level. Those who seek employment straight from undergrad school may find themselves with limited opportunities in their field. (Then again, those with advanced humanities degrees often find their opportunities limited as well... try and find a tenure track prof position with your Ph.D. in English.)</p>
<p>As with many career related topics, one's employability depends more on personal marketing, work experience, and accomplishments than the college name or even major on the degree. (Obviously, some careers and positions DO have very specific degree requirements, but many don't.)</p>
<p>I often feel that too many people get lost in the goal of undergraduate education: development of strong reading, writing, and critical thinking skills.Philosophy is a fabulous choice for a major in that it hones intellectual and writing skills better than almost any other liberal arts major. If you go to a top school or achieve a great GPA, firms will hire you.You don't need a second major per se!</p>
<p>If not, you will have to go to some grad school such as law, MBA etc, MS in accounting etc. Grad school can always help greatly with your job prospects if you pick a program with a good career path. However, I guess it won't hurt you to double major in philosophy and a major that has a vocationally oriented career path such as accounting IF you don't plan on obtaining any graduate degree.</p>
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As with many career related topics, one's employability depends more on personal marketing, work experience, and accomplishments than the college name or even major on the degree. (Obviously, some careers and positions DO have very specific degree requirements, but many don't.)
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</p>
<p>How much of a role does GPA play relative to all the fact mentioned above?</p>
<p>@student14x</p>
<p>Depends on the job. For engineering jobs straight out of college, a low GPA is good (not too low to show that you're incompetent). The reason for this is you won't feel overqualified and thus stay at the job longer than if you had a 3.7 GPA.</p>
<p>I may have posted this before on an earlier thread of this nature, but my H's neurosurgeon (H had a discectomy) has his ug degree in philosophy. The doc knew he wanted med school but he liked philosophy so he majored in that and just took the bio/chem/math classes he needed to apply to med school as electives. I'm not sure he even bothered to declare himself premed.</p>
<p>Our orthodontist's S is going to UT Austin next year as premed with a major in studio art. He'll do the same as the neuro guy and just take his bio/chem stuff as electives. Frankly, I think the kid wants to just do the art and his parents are making him take the premed classes as a "backup", but he is really good at math and science, just his passion is art.</p>
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Let me see if I understand you, Mr. Payne.</p>
<p>You think it's more logical that the reason philosophy majors do better (generally speaking) on grad school exams is solely because of the caliber of the student choosing the major? and not because of the education bundled along with said major?
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Yep, that's kind of like the same reason Math majors do well on the GRE (even on the reading side!).</p>
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And if this is indeed your standpoint, wouldn't it stand to reason that if these amazingly intelligent philosophy majors can do so well on grad school exams (without any prior training, mind you), that they wouldn't have any trouble applying their stellar intellectual skills to other fields just as easily?
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No. I want to see them try to design a microchip using their stellar intellectual skills despite having taken no course work.</p>
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Sounds illogical to me.
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It's the reality of the US employment market. Employers want skills that allow people to do their job the first day in the door.</p>
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Yep, that's kind of like the same reason Math majors do well on the GRE (even on the reading side!).
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LR and AR scores on the LSAT correspond directly to courses in logic, which is the first recommendation any LSAT prep/advisory program makes. It also corresponds to the GRE and the MCAT, because most questions have a syntax that can immediately disqualify one or more answers. I don't really care to argue about this, because it's a circular argument, but if you think it's solely because philosophy majors are intelligent (fyi, like "most" people in any field, they are completely average) you are amazingly ignorant. One logic course, for students who are scoring in the 25th-75th percentiles, is pretty much a guaranteed +10-15 points on the LSAT.</p>
<p>Also, there are almost no undergraduate programs in the United States that teach students skills to do their job "the first day in the door." Every industry has on the job training.</p>
<p>All these moronic debates inevitably come back to one thing: it's a large issue, and there are a multitude of factors that play a role in everything in life, and undergraduate years--if your interest is long term wealth creation--should be spent developing skill sets regardless of the major chosen or courses taken.</p>
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LR and AR scores on the LSAT correspond directly to courses in logic, which is the first recommendation any LSAT prep/advisory program makes. It also corresponds to the GRE and the MCAT, because most questions have a syntax that can immediately disqualify one or more answers.
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Up to a certain point, I agree.</p>
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I don't really care to argue about this, because it's a circular argument, but if you think it's solely because philosophy majors are intelligent (fyi, like "most" people in any field, they are completely average) you are amazingly ignorant.
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Fair enough. I was wrong. For the bottom 75% philosophy can help them get better scores. </p>
<p>On another note, the median student in Mathematics is certainly much smarter than the median student in Education. Not all fields of study are the same.</p>
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Also, there are almost no undergraduate programs in the United States that teach students skills to do their job "the first day in the door." Every industry has on the job training.
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And some majors require less training than others. This is not simply a yes/no situation. It's a continuum.</p>
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All these moronic debates inevitably come back to one thing: it's a large issue, and there are a multitude of factors that play a role in everything in life, and undergraduate years--if your interest is long term wealth creation--should be spent developing skill sets regardless of the major chosen or courses taken.
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And some majors leave students with better skill sets than others (the point of this thread).</p>
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On another note, the median student in Mathematics is certainly much smarter than the median student in Education. Not all fields of study are the same.
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I disagree, but only because of the language. The median is the wrong choice, but I know what you're saying.
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Fair enough. I was wrong. For the bottom 75% philosophy can help them get better scores.
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For the bottom 75% of philosophy majors and for 100% of other majors that have not taken a course in logic, basically. With the exception of actually taking LSAT pretests, one course in logic for someone who has never studied it it seems to be the only other thing that increases the average LSAT score near 100% of the time.
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And some majors leave students with better skill sets than others (the point of this thread).
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Most people forget what they've learned several years out of college. I think the best thing college as a whole teaches you is how to research and analyze something, which is arguably the only skill that is applicable to all industries but service, and is the only skill that will stay with you. That's really the reason to take a "difficult" major, the independent research you do that you don't get credit for</p>
<p>@mercymom</p>
<p>Regarding that philoso-physician, do you happen to know what medical school he went to? What kind of extracurriculars did he do in his undergrad college with a philosophy major?</p>
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That's really the reason to take a "difficult" major, the independent research you do that you don't get credit for
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What are your examples of "difficult" majors?</p>
