<p>beenthereMTDad, of course you know the difference between an EPA and an ECC! I know that. I was making a point that in many EPAs or agent submitted auditions for PARTS, NOT CHORUS, voice and acting are paramount and sometimes dance is also important. You had mentioned that acting was not a big part of auditions and my point is that is true for ECCs for singers who dance or dancers who sing but not for PARTS. </p>
<p>You mention going straight to “stardom,” and how that is unlikely. Yes, it is unlikely to become a star. For my kid, her goal is not to be a star. Further, her goal is not narrowly defined by making it to Broadway. She feels she is highly unlikely to be cast in a chorus, particularly a dancing chorus, given her height and type. She tends to audition for parts. While she grew up dancing, she considers herself a singer/actor first and foremost. And I know a bunch of her peers who have been cast in parts on tours, Broadway, off Broadway and major regional theaters and not ensemble in the early years post college graduation. Not everyone goes to ensemble first, and not everyone is suited to be a chorus girl or boy. It has nothing to do with stardom and more to do with type. Even your daughter was considered for a part on Broadway recently (in Newsies) and I don’t think she has been in a Broadway chorus yet! Actually, the daughter of a CCer from this forum is currently temporarily playing the standby for that part on Broadway! Before this, she was understudy for a lead on a National Tour, and has only been out of school less than a year.</p>
<p>The funny part of all this is we are experiencing the total opposite. My daughter is 5’9" and too tall for the ensemble. If not for her being so tall she would have been a Broadway veteran by now. She is too tall for the romantic lead so far as well (amazed at how many men on Broadway are vertically challenged). Yet the casting people keep calling her back over and over again. Most of her success has come in form of TV and radio.</p>
<p>Now that my rookie-parent pants have been scared off of me perhaps I’ve just saved tens (hundreds) of thousands of dollars in college tuition as I fold up the tent…</p>
<p>I’m over my head to even comment and I don’t know what it is I don’t know about working in the theatre world. However, one cannot live backwards. My 5’8” acting/singing daughter who has had ‘some’ dance training who moves well and picks up choreography very quickly will never be able to make up the years of formal focused dance training that many have had. Up until now, it has been the area of training that was often triaged in favor of academics followed by acting and singing. But she must have faked her dancing well enough because she got into a number of fine MT programs. </p>
<p>How do you embed quotes in this CC program? Wish I knew. </p>
<p>beenthereMTdad your comment:</p>
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<p>Does anyone enter a college program with a strategy to focus their training in a direction that guarantees them work in the chorus? Most of the theatre/MT kids I’ve seen are hoping for featured roles on major stages (or their directorial, song writing, stagecraft, script writing etc. equivalent) and trying to do what it takes to get there which includes making choices about what/where they study. So while not “planning” on stardom, they are certainly hoping for it. The smart ones are also mindful of the odds so that they set reasonable goals and have a broad definition of what success means to them.</p>
<p>There are many 5’9 women who are working/have worked on stage on Broadway, off-Broadway, regionally, national tours. halflokum, don’t worry about your 5’8 daughter. :)</p>
<p>^^^Worrying about my kids would happen no matter how tall they are or what field they were entering but thank you so much for the encouragement :). Honestly I’m not in the mindset yet to think about too much about “career” but when it comes up it give me a bit of a (YIKES!!!). Then again, I didn’t understand the college audition process at the beginning either and managed to sort it out. At the moment, the focus is picking the right college program which is a nice problem to have after all of the worry and work that went into chasing the options in the first place. This thread is about Pace vs. Tisch. My daughter did not apply to Pace so I don’t know much about it but from everything that I’ve read, anyone looking at those two choices or just one of them should be doing the happy dance.</p>
<p>Frankly, I would not want my kid to attend a program set on training them for the chorus. A program strong in acting is important to my kid and many others. </p>
<p>Halflokum, your D is doing the “happy dance” (she can dance, yeah)…for good reason. </p>
<p>I never knew that 5’9" was too tall for a dancing ensemble. I think for a dancing chorus, it would be better to be tall than to be on the shorter side like my kid at 5’3". In any case, I think many looks and shapes and sizes are needed in casting.</p>
<p>beenthereMTdad, if your D is having success in TV and radio, it’s a great thing she can act!</p>
<p>Thanks soozievt for clearing up the dance issue for me. I will pass the info on to my D. All said, even being a new studio with start up problems my D loves NYU and would not be happy anywhere else. And yes, to clarify, she only has 12 students in her class at NSB and I think that is phenomenal. She just called home asking for advice with her academic classes and they sounded so interesting that I want to re enroll in college at NYU!</p>
<p>tutu…it’s great that you have shared DIRECT information from your D who is actually in the NSB studio program as to class size. </p>
<p>One thing on the MT Forum that I see time and time again, is a misconception that a large BFA program such as Tisch (or BOCO, etc.) will mean less individual attention, and so on. But the CLASS SIZES at Tisch in the CLASSROOM are similar to small programs. As a former teacher myself, the classroom size is what matters when it comes to being able to provide individual attention.</p>
<p>To be fair, there is a difference if a teacher only sees ONE group of 20 students for a year, versus having 7-8 groups of 12. (note that my kid had no interest in being in a small program as she wanted more contact with a variety of students AND professors).</p>
<p>It’s also worth mentioning that back in the day when I attended a conservatory, many teachers flew between coasts to teach, so although my program was very small, those same teachers had MANY students outside the conservatory. I assume this is true at many small MT programs, as the small number of students probably aren’t funding full-time salaries for many teachers.</p>
<p>It’s true that a teacher may teach four sections of 12 students and not just one section. </p>
<p>College selection is about fit and my kid liked having contact with a variety of students (not the same 12 in every class for four years) and to learn from a variety of professors over four years as opposed to just a few which small departments tend to have. But this is something one should weigh when choosing amongst programs. The class size IN CLASS is not what is so different between different size programs but is this other stuff. Another difference is a wide variety of performance opportunities in a larger program rather than just a few shows per year.</p>
<p>I think I am being misunderstood here. I try to post my opinion based on the masses and not necessarily based on my own daughter or anyone’s personal situation. I try to look at not the exception (which there are always many), but the rule. The reality is thousands enter MT programs every year. Out of the thousands that graduate, hundreds wind up with representation. Out of the hundreds of graduates, how many do your think land a job (yes and even an ensemble job) on either Broadway or a Broadway national tour? And to take this a step further how many do you think land A ROLE on Broadway.</p>
<p>Here is a challenge for everyone. Find a list of people straight out from school who land a ROLE on Broadway. My money says the over/under is 10. YES TEN.</p>
<p>Some of my personal experiences come from the trials and tribulations of my daughter’s MT career. Personally, her agents only want her trying out for ROLES or ensemble for Broadway and Broadway national tours. Only because that is where the money is besides TV, radio and film and it’s a business.</p>
<p>Regarding being tall, 5’9” for my daughter has been a problem for Broadway in general. No director wants anyone in the ensemble to stick out. This is not to say it is possible. Being tall (for as girl) is usually leading lady material providing the male lead is also tall. </p>
<p>SoosieVT</p>
<p>Look at the ages of the leading ladies you chose to mention by height. I think we are talking about kids right out of MT programs not established stars. These talented ladies are the exception not the rule.</p>
<p>Sutton Foster – 37
Katie Finneran – 42
Linda Eder – 51
Heather Headley – 37
Dee Hoty – 60
Christine Ebersole – 59</p>
<p>Getting back to class size: while my D is not in MT, I can attest to the fact that even though the teachers may have more than one group of students at Tisch they really get to know these students well! And care about them. It is not an impersonal, anonymous experience by any means. It is true that students form much more of a close-knit relationship with the studio than with the Tisch School as a whole, although there are plenty of opportunities to get to know students from other studios and to work with them. </p>
<p>The bigger size of Tisch overall, and multiple groups within a studio has its pluses and minuses. I would imagine that at the smaller conservatories, students move through with the same group. This can be a good thing and a bad thing, a bad thing if there are people that you don’t like being with, and essentially living with, for four years.</p>
<p>At Tisch, the groups within at least some of the studios get mixed up in different semesters. I know that at both my D’s studio (Playwrights) and at NSB, the groups that were together for all of freshman year were mixed up this year. As a sophomore, my D was in one group in the fall, and a different one this spring. If a group really has a great chemistry together, it can be tough to break this up, but it also forces the students to explore artistically and take risks even when not in familiar territory. </p>
<p>I should say that at least for my D, there were quite a few people who have remained in her group consistently since the beginning / or more than one semester, so it has been a really nice blend for her of retaining personal familiarity and building new relationships within the classroom. </p>
<p>I think that at NSB, there are further breakdowns and mixing up of people for particular classes (but someone else can address that more accurately than me.).</p>
<p>SDonCC, I agree that the professors in studio get to know the students very well. My D is still in touch with some. And both during college and after graduating, she has worked in professional capacities with several of these faculty members. </p>
<p>beenthereMTDad, the thing is, I think it is important for students reading this forum who are entering college to understand realistic goals and also what “success” may mean in this field. I run into many MT hopefuls in my work as a college counselor and many say, “I want to be on Broadway.” I am all for dreaming big of course. But very very few will ever be on Broadway. If someone is entering a college program with that hope in the forefront of their mind, there are gonna be a lot of disappointed people. For my own kid, of course being on Broadway would be amazing (how could it not be?) but that truly is not a goal she ever talks about. What she thinks (and I concur) is that success is working in her field in a professional capacity and getting paid to do it and making her living from doing it and immersing her entire life in performing arts (every job she has is in music and theater and has been from the get go). If success is looked at in that fashion, many of her peers from her college program are doing it. And yes, quite a number have been on Broadway and on tours in roles, but obviously they are not the majority. But for me, when we talk about work after graduating, it is not nearly defined by Broadway. </p>
<p>I understand your point about going where the money is but for my kid, as long as she can support herself, she cares more about the artistic work than finding the best paying gigs. For example, she has the opportunity next month to perform at the Sydney Opera House in Australia, all expenses paid, plus a small salary, but besides the amazing trip and venue, gets to work with some movers and shakers in theater and music. It is not all about the pay as long as she can pay her bills.</p>
<p>Well said halflokum-I like the idea of owning what success means to them! I too am a “newbie” at all of this since my D is just a freshman in NSB. I have little experience compared to the other entries on here and love reading them all! Each kid has to recognize their strengths and weaknesses and those, coupled with that child’s idea of “success” is what will guide them to certain roles, chorus, etc. In the end, It all comes down to making yourself a well rounded performer and then a bunch of luck!. Too many are seeing the instant fame of GAGA or some of the Disney type actor/singers and think that they can do that too. Just drop out and become famous! YIKES!!!</p>
<p>Anyway, good luck with all of your decisions! I remember how hard that all was but your D must be a good little actor/singer to have been accepted into so many schools. My D is loving the NSB/MT track and I hope your D loves whatever or wherever she chooses to attend! @momcares-
For the record, being too “dancery” would most likely mean that the dancer was probably a ballerina and not someone who was well versed in many disciplines of dance. In my experience, most ballet students don’t go into MT but the ones who have studied tap, jazz, ballet etc, usually know how to adjust on stage since dancing to a song is not much different than playing a part. You have to understand the song and match the dance moves, expressions, and mood to the music-i think it is what truly makes someone a triple threat</p>