<p>My S has been able to narrow his choices down to Oberlin and University of Michigan for a bachelor of music in clarinet. He is having a really hard time deciding between the two. He got very good scholarships and financial aid to both, so money is less of a consideration. I've heard that of the two professors, Dan Gilbert has more "prestige" than Richard Hawkins and gets his students orchestral jobs. Is it really all about the private teacher when you are a performance major? Are there any current students of either school or people who have been in a similar situation?</p>
<p>Both are fine teachers. Has your son had sample lessons with either of them, and if so did he connect with one more than the other? Both schools themselves are very different–one large, one small. Oberlin is a conservatory, UMich is not. Has your son visited the campuses? Did he sit in on ensemble rehearsals? No teacher can ‘get’ a student an orchestral job. It is all about how well the audition goes. Both teachers can prepare a student for auditions–but when the time comes for auditions, it’s basically all on the shoulders of the performer. If you look at who the teachers were of current clarinetists getting orchestra jobs (which is a very small number) they are all over the board. Right now your S should focus on which teacher and which school he feels will be the best fit for him. My S went through the same dilemma four years ago of trying to decide on a school. He made a Pro-Con list, which helped him hone in on what was important to him. Still a tie? Maybe flip a coin? 
or now might be the time, if you can afford it, to make a trip back to each to see how it feels on a second visit.</p>
<p>Find out which grad schools their students are attending. It’s almost a given now that these kids have to get their masters degree and those teachers have to be very well connected as well.
As Clarimom pointed out, those two schools are very different. In which place does he feel most comfortable?</p>
<p>I agree totally with Clarimom and Mezzo’sMama. To expand a bit:</p>
<p>The 2 universities are completely different, and the choice will depend on what your son ultimately thinks he wants to do, keeping in mind that goals may change after a year or 2 of college. The 2 excellent teachers you name are completely different, in terms of focus and personality. Hopefully he has had lessons with each and if not, I urge him to do so, as well as hearing the various ensembles. (Oberlin does not have a concert band experience, at least not previously, but they do have a wind ensemble. Michigan has a Concert Band and a Symphony Band, with the latter focusing more on new works by living composers, and led by one of the best university directors in the country.) Your son should not be considering any teacher “prestige” factor, in this case, in making his decision. While one professor may have more personal contacts than another, they are both big names in the clarineting world. Oberlin will be a very serious musical experience across the board. At Michigan you will probably have more music students with varied interests. At Michigan there is becoming more of an emphasis on entrepreneurship and collaboration, especially as the elusive orchestra position seems to be disappearing. He should definitely ask both teachers what happens to their students upon graduation, keeping in mind that the main thing that will determine his musical fate is his own inner drive. The campuses, of course, are completely different. At Michigan, the music school has the advantage of being somewhat isolated from the rest of the university, giving it a conservatory feel, yet being close enough for easy access to the wide world that is U of M, for those who choose to participate. Oberlin is definitely small and isolated and would probably have fewer distractions. If he is thinking about a 5-year double major, depending on the major, this actually may be easier at Oberlin where the scheduling seems to be more supportive. (Please verify). If he has any additional interests at all, or is interested in accumulating a huge network of artistic connections, U of M would certainly be a top choice.</p>
<p>When my D was going through this process a few years ago we actually did a pro and con grid where we assigned different point values to all the aspects of her education (teacher, playing level of fellow students, opportunities for performance on and off campus, location, quality of musical and academic education, opportunities after graduation, size, general livability (access/cost of food/shelter), campus opportunities and student life, and general happiness of the student body etc. It was very helpful. </p>
<p>Again I would caution that the most important factor in ultimate “success”, however way that is defined, will be the inner drive, passion and interests of the student. And keep in mind that all of that may change. Your son is very fortunate to be in his position. I hope I have helped and not confused more!</p>
<p>Congratulations on your son’s acceptance to both schools. I can’t speak to Michigan, but do want to say a couple things regarding Oberlin. The environment of Oberlin, the town, Oberlin the Conservatory and Oberlin the College is unique. My son fell in love with it during his summer composition program. But the environment is not for everyone. If having a big university larger city experience is sought or is of a high degree of importance, then Oberlin may not the place. I hope your son has had a chance to spend time at the Conservatory and the town (hopefully more than just at the audition). Time spent will help him decide if the Conservatory and its environment is right for him.</p>
<p>My son likes the idea that except for a couple of limited masters programs Oberlin focuses on undergraduates. Even though most are undergraduates, the level of playing amongst the students is extraordinary. Also extraordinary is the number of master classes and performances by outsiders to Oberlin. Connections with the “outside world” are in part made through these interactions.</p>
<p>It is true that Oberlin does not have a Concert Band in the true sense although the town of Oberlin does. Their concerts in Tappan Square are very cool… If new music is sought, Oberlin is at the forefront not just in composition but in the performance of new works. </p>
<p>But it still comes down whether the environment is somewhere in which your son will be happy for 4 or 5 years.</p>
<p>clarinet123, I PM’ed you.</p>
<p>I just wanted to share an observation in reference to what compdad said above about programs that focus on undergraduates. When my S was looking at schools we thought that having graduate programs was a relative negative and it would be preferable to study at a school such as Oberlin with few graduate students. My S is now a Jr. at UM studying cello performance and he has found the presence of grad students to be nothing but positive. He has had so many great opportunities as a result of collaborations with masters level and doctoral students. He’s been in chamber groups with masters students, played on lots of grad student recitals- instrumentalists, composers and conductors, and played with several wonderful pianists who are getting their masters in collaborative piano. He also has really enjoyed learning from and being inspired by the grad students in his studio and in the orchestra. Anyway, I’m sure there are advantages and disadvantages to both.</p>
<p>My daughter’s in a program with grad students. In fact, one of her studios has everything from pre-college kids to grad students. She, too, has found it enriching to be with peers of all ages. </p>
<p>What I said about the focus on undergraduates was from my son’s perspective. I agree that there are pros and cons to the presence of graduate students. The chief pro to no grad students is that undergrads do not compete with grad students for their teachers attention. The cons are well stated by cellomom2. My son feels that due to the level of talent of Oberlin performance majors, he is not hurt by having access to few grad students. Once he is in grad school his performance major peers will also be there. I raised the undergraduate point as an area of thought since it had not been raised yet.</p>