<p>I just received the letter from my S's HS college counselor that listed his suggestions for music major colleges. </p>
<p>Grand Valley State University, Michigan
Ball State University, Indiana<br>
Butler University, Indiana<br>
DePaul University, Illinois
Hope College, Michigan
Oberlin College, Ohio
Roosevelt University, Illinois
Southern Methodist University, Texas
University of Cincinnati, Ohio
University of Iowa
University of Kansas
University of Nebraska - Omaha</p>
<p>Based on S's criteria, 3.8 GPA, has not taken the ACT yet, is in the 50% of his class, etc., these are the counselor's suggestions of a "fit." I'm sure these are wonderful schools, but there is one thing wrong here... other than Oberlin, none of these schools are music schools or conservatories!!!! And Oberlin has a super high selectivity rate!!! It just keeps getting more and more confusing.</p>
<p>I'd add this to the "Stupid HS GC Quote" thread especially on the disconnect with Oberlin and it's very high selectivity on the same list as other schools with much less selectivity. Oh, I get it! Oberlin is the "stretch" school!!!</p>
<p>BTW, Roosevelt in Chicago does have a decent music program, as does Ball State, but I can't comment on the specifics at these places for cello studies.</p>
<p>At least you now have total confidence in the GC's inability to provide any accurate or meaningful information for music performance applicants. I'd relegate him to the "write the letters where and when I tell you to" category...</p>
<p>rudysmom -- I am not familiar with many of the schools on that list, but some of them are quite strong in music and/or have well-regarded music schools. I'm surprised, since you are in the Chicago area, that you are not familiar with DePaul and Roosevelt or are they not strong in your son's instrument? I know that in the case of my D's instrument (violin), there are highly regarded teachers at both of them, and also at Grand Valley State. Those schools may not be what you're looking for, but don't be too quick to write schools off without looking at them closely. Depending on the instrument and the student's goal, there are lots of hidden gems out there, many in unexpected and unlikely places. If you are approaching this from a "look for the best teacher fit" strategy, then make sure you research the faculty at different schools. In my D's case, she has decided to do a more holistic approach to the college search, and the overall school, academcs, location, size and and setting are equally important to her, so she's tackling her college search from both angles (school AND teacher). Also remember that the student's audition is much more important than the academic stats, for performance majors. Defined that way, I think it's probably fair to say that ALL music admissions have among the highest selectivity rates.</p>
<p>I am familiar with Roosevelt and also DePaul. DePaul has been on our list of possibilities. My post was more of a reaction to Oberlin being on the the list. It seems inconsistent.</p>
<p>Hope College is a liberal arts school that is affiliated with the Reformed Church of America but draws most of its students from other Christian church backgrounds as well as students who are not from church families. It has about 3,000 students and draws quite a few students from the Chicago area. Its music department is fairly small, and wouldn't be a place most music students looking for a professional music school would consider. I'd be really curious as to why Hope, although it is a good school, ended up on the GC's list.</p>
<p>I'll add my voice to Imperial Zepplin's regarding Roosevelt & Ball State, although in general none on the list compare to Oberlin in overall strength of program. Regards University of Nebraska, if you're looking at Nebraska, look at UN-Lincoln (Hickson-Leid School of Music) for music. This is definately an up and coming program. <a href="http://www.unl.edu/music/undergrad/undergrad.shtml%5B/url%5D">http://www.unl.edu/music/undergrad/undergrad.shtml</a>. Karen Becker & Jeffrey Beaver are the cello faculty. Beaver is the cellist with the Chiara Quartet, <a href="http://www.unl.edu/music/chamber/chiara.shtml%5B/url%5D">http://www.unl.edu/music/chamber/chiara.shtml</a> definately one of
the leading cutting edge young quartets out there. I'm not sure when Chiara's residency is up (I'm not saying it hasn't been renewed), as it was initially a two or three year committment, and they're in at least year 2 now.</p>
<p>For Texas, I'd say look at UT Austin and University of North Texas. </p>
<p>Again, without looking at specific faculty for cello for the schools listed, I'm wondering why he chose them.</p>
<p>Oberlin may indeed be a stretch, but it is perhaps not as super selective as the OP may think. The overall acceptance rate for the Conservatory is about 27% these days. Some departments are a bit easier to get into and a few are much harder. Cello, being a popular instrument but one for which they may accept upwards of fifteen per year, is probably near or a little below their average admission rate. I would probably save the term "super selective" for schools like Curtis and Juilliard with acceptance rates in the single digits.</p>
<p>If the OP's son is looking for a BA in music, the Oberlin College acceptance rate was 37%. Of those who enrolled, 61.8% had a GPA lower than 3.75 and 36.8% had a GPA of less than 3.25, so his grades should be a favorable consideration. If looking for a double degree, the Conservatory is usually the limiting factor and most students have a good chance to transfer into the double degree program in second year, even if they were turned down by the College side upon their initial application.</p>
<p>The GC's list does indeed seem a bit haphazard, with Hope thrown in as well as a geographic outlier or two. While there is no such thing as a safety school for performance majors (because it is always possible to blow a 15-minute audition), it is always a good idea to apply to a couple of schools where you will likely be at the deep end of the talent pool. From that viewpoint, there may actually be some schools of interest on that list. I would suggest that you talk to son's new cello teacher about college possibilities after they have had several lessons. As others have said, use the GC for shuffling paper and other resources for the strategic decisions.</p>
<p>My guess, Rudysmom, is that the counselor simply plugged your S's numbers into a school finder to find schools that offered music majors. I am betting he is considering a school like Cincinnati a "fit" without knowing a thing about the conservatory. The University is a cinch to get in; CCM is extremely difficult.</p>
<p>If you go to the SAT website: <a href="http://collegeboard.com/splash/%5B/url%5D">http://collegeboard.com/splash/</a> and plug in the name of any college into the "college quick finder", you will pull up a nice little "booklet" of information about the school, including stats. If you fill out the "matchmaker" portion, the program will make more suggestions to you. Hint: only fill out what is critical to you, and leave the rest blank. You will get more options that way. I wouldn't use it as a main or sole source of identifying schools, but it can be helpful in suggesting schools that weren't on your radar for some reason.</p>
<p>If you find a school that looks interesting, you can click on a button to "find more like it", and it will give you other suggestions.</p>
<p>It has it's limitations for music programs. It won't tell you, for instance, that Cincinnati or Indiana have music conservatories. That homework you have to do elsewhere.</p>
<p>If your son is a trumpet player, Grand Valley State has one of the BEST trumpet studios in the country. The students from their routinely win top ensemble and solo awards at the National Trumpet Competition. In fact, if you google that, you can hear the 2006 winners. They are outrageous. This is one of those schools that you would NEVER know about if you weren't a trumpet player. But in trumpet playing circles, it is VERY VERY highly regarded.</p>
<p>Well thumper1, that is very interesting. That's revealing to me that our counselor has had some past experience with a former trumpet player in our school. But he knows my S. is a cellist, so I imagine he just pulled info from memory and doesn't even realize that does not fit our need.</p>
<p>But I sure never knew that about Grand Valley State!</p>
<p>Roosevelt has 6 cellists on faculty, 4 of which are with the Chicago Symphony or Lyric Opera. This could in effect make Roosevelt a potential feeder school for those organizations. (Did I say that? Orchestral auditions are supposedly fair and based on ability...)</p>
<p>Mihai Tetel at Ball State has some impressive credentials.</p>
<p>You may have found a GC who might have an idea of what he's doing, in light of thumper's GV State comment.</p>
<p>There is no comparable school to Oberlin on that list, at least to my knowledge. As others have commented, this may be the GC's take on a musical "reach."</p>
<p>Really, violadad? I would have thought Cincinnati's conservatory at least as good as Oberlin (Speaking generally. Can't speak to specific instruments).</p>
<p>I'm pretty sure University of Kansas has a fairly good music program, again it is probably not Oberlin, but it may be something worth looking into. I've heard of quite a few music majors graduating from there and then going on to top notch grad. schools.</p>
<p>CCM (cincinnati) is a great conservatory. I don't have any personal experience with Depaul, but when DS auditioned at NEC, the guy before him (also trumpet) was also auditioning at Depaul (or was it Depauw...is that a school?). This kid's mom and I were chatting and she said that school (in Chicago) was great too...good faculty. In fact, he son went there.</p>
<p>Sheesh, I missed Depaul on the original list. I think Depaul has the highest % of CSO members on it's faculty for all the schools in the Chicago area including Northwestern. Definitely worth taking a look at, especially in light of your geographic situation.</p>
<p>I have to agree with binx's assessment. This seems to be the result of punching in GPA, class rank, music major, etc. into something like "College Match.Com" and cutting and pasting the results into your letter. The problem is with schools like Oberlin and University of Cincinnati with attached conservatories. These computer "simulations" are often ignorant that these are "stand alone" entities and only use the general stats for the institution and have no "fudge factor" for music ability. So yes, students with stats like OP's S would have a great chance in getting into U of Cincinnati, but that doesn't mean squatola about getting into CCM.</p>
<p>Once again, unless your child is in a Performing Arts HS or has a GC that has clearly demonstrated experience in this process, take every thing that a GC says with large grains of salt. Kind of like what the preacher said to Sheriff Bart in Blazing Saddles after the townspeople blew away his bible in the preacher's plea to restrain violence, Son, you're on your own!</p>
<p>I received a response 1st thing this a.m. from the GC stating Oberlin on the list was his "reach." So that explains that (would've been nice for a quick explanation).</p>
<p>Also, my S. had previously identified FSU and Lawrence as his 1st 2 choices/interests so the GC said his list was in ADDITION to my S's list. Again, that would've been nice to know. We thought he had eliminated those as not being a fit somehow, etc.</p>
<p>We will look into DePaul. S has wanted to "branch out" a little. </p>
<p>From ImperialZeppelin: "students with stats like OP's S would have a great chance in getting into U of Cincinnati, but that doesn't mean squatola about getting into CCM."<br>
So, does this mean that he would/or would not have a chance of getting in to CCM?</p>