<p>I'm hoping to hail BassDad...or anyone else with experience at Oberlin. Son is a trumpet player and wants to double major. We are Californians...yes, he's drooling over Jens Lindemann at UCLA, but we are also looking into other options. He's eyeing Julliard (can a suburban kid from the land of perpetual sunshine survive in Manhatten even if he gets in?) and Curtis.
Oberlin seems to be a lovely school with options for both academics and music. How is the weather, the kids, the faculty? I'm having trouble accessing the average scores and GPA. How to they place in grad schools (both music and professional). BassDad always seem to have great links, but I'd sure love the unput of anyone with Oberlin experience out there!
Thanks!</p>
<p>Unput, input...coffee has not yet reached bloodstream:)</p>
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He's eyeing Julliard (can a suburban kid from the land of perpetual sunshine survive in Manhatten even if he gets in?)
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<p>My kid, raised in Georgia, loves NYC. However, he lives in the dorm which is in Lincoln Center, so he doesn't spend a lot of time outside, except running next door to class or concert. He does enjoy Central Park, across the street. But he just spends most of his time in classes, rehearsals, and practice rooms, and flatly admits that the weather really doesn't affect him one way or another.</p>
<p>As far as Trumpet, you may want to also hail Thumper - her S is a trumpeter. Have you looked at Arizona - supposed to be quite good for trumpet?</p>
<p>My son is a trumpet student who just finished his first year at Indiana University. He also applied to Oberlin, Lawrence, University of North Texas, University of Northern Colorado, and a few others. He knows a trumpet player at Oberlin who was a sophomore this year. (They played together in youth orchestra.)</p>
<p>Oberlin does have a double degree program, which is one reason my son applied there. I have heard, however, that it is really hard to coordinate classes to do both. Both college and conservatory are very hard to get into. My son was rejected by the conservatory and waitlisted at the college. (The conservatory basically didn't need ANY trumpet players last year, as all accepted players the year before had unexpectedly decided to go there.) My son had good stats: 3.97 gpa unweighted, 1410 SAT on the old SAT, tons of EC's and great recommendations.</p>
<p>My son is loving IU, however, and is totally glad that he chose it. He loves his trumpet teacher (Ed Cord), and has taken a couple lessons with another of the trumpet profs there and enjoyed those, too. He has played in jazz band, concert band, a brass quintet he and some other students put together, and chamber orchestra, and loves the fact that there is always something musical going on. He knows one trumpeter who transferred from New England Conservatory, feeling IU was better in trumpet. Others have wondered why his friend would choose Oberlin over IU. Of course, I am sure a little school pride is involved here; Oberlin is an excellent school. But if you want an outstanding trumpet program within a good university, be sure to check into IU. If you have any questions, I would be glad to try to help.</p>
<p>Consider me hailed!! My son is a trumpet performance major. First, let me say that if you wish to double major, Curtis and Juilliard are probably not the right choices for you. These schools are primarily for students who are serious performers. </p>
<p>Here is what I know...your son the trumpet player needs to be comfortable with the trumpet teacher first and foremost. The most significant relationship every music major has is with their private teacher with whom they spend a huge amount of time. My son applied to, and was accepted to New England Conservatory, Peabody Conservatory, the Hartt School, U of North Texas, Duquesne and Boston University. He chose Boston University for three reasons...the primary one was the trumpet teacher, Terry Everson, is one of the best studio trumpet players in the country and DS had studied with him at Tanglewood. DS felt confident that Terry would be the perfect mentor in his musical studies, and that has been true. Second reason was that DS wanted to be in Boston for the arts and cultural opportunities both to participate in and to go see. Again, he has not been disappointed. Third, BU has a study abroad arrangement with the Royal College of Music in London, something that is not available in most music performance programs. DS did this program, and again was not disappointed.</p>
<p>With regard to Oberlin, and many other schools where a student wishes to double major...the student must pass both the academic admissions process AND the audition. Sometimes that can be dicey.</p>
<p>AND the most important thing...time. Music courses by nature tend to be one or two credit course that meet four or five hours a week. DS took SEVEN courses this semester totalling 17 credits. Orchestra was one credit and met 1 1/2 hours daily (yes, daily). Chamber music was 1 credit and met for 3 hours a week. Add in the concerts, practice time individual, practice time chamber, and any classes...oh and homework, and honestly, I don't know how a performance major can complete more than one degree in four years. In fact the several students I personally know from Oberlin took five years to complete their double degree. The double degree program (engineering) between Tufts and NEC is a five year program (oh....and it has very little music the first two years).</p>
<p>My advice is to start looking for and meeting, and taking lessons with trumpet teachers.</p>
<p>BTW...SAT scores and GPAs are almost irrelevant at schools like Curtis and Juilliard. Even at NEC they are non-issues (when DS applied, the average SAT score combined reading and math was 900). It's that 10 minute (and truthfully that is ALL you get) audition that is the determining factor...and this is becoming more the norm for every performance based program.</p>
<p>If he is REALLY good he should audition for Eastman. Double majoring is really very difficult, but maybe not impossible (it's part of Univ of Rochester). I know some years as many as 250+ kids audition for trumpet performance, sometimes for as few as three positions (one year it was 6). They may actually do some auditions in California. Call them and find out. That is how my son's trumpet teacher ended up at Eastman (but that was years ago).</p>
<p>This is great! Thank you so much!! Son has a good friend at Indiana...I should have said he will apply to that one as well. He was at national honor orchestra in Indianapolis and we all fell in love with Indiana.
Son will be at Tanglewood studying with Terry this summer, so it will be a good trial lesson experience. Another good friend is going to BU for trumpet performance and we'll hear all about it in the coming months. We also know kid at Arizona, so we'll be looking into it as well...son's tuba-playing friend from brass ensemble is going there next year.
Binx...how did you feel about dropping off child in Manhatten? What instrument does he play? How is he finding Julliard? What did he do to prepare for that all-important 10 minute audition? One of son's old teachers says its where "dogs eat dogs." Is that your son's experience or does he find the environment supportive?
Thumper...thanks for the trumpet-specific info!! Should son ask for lessons at Julliard, IU, Oberlin, etc on his college tours? Seems like a sort of audition process for both student and teacher....which seems like a great idea. Did son consider Jens at UCLA? Northwestern? Does he study exclusively with Terry or does he also take lessons elsewhere?
Are Julliard and Curtis (the performance oriented schools) still the places to go if one wants a performance job, or is it, again, the audition? We've all heard the story about the kid from Northwestern (I think) who got the NY Phil job. Does son want orchestra job? Is New World the way to go?
I'm finding that a lot of places seem to accept tapes in lieu of a live audition...is that true and is it adviseable?
The info about credit was great...it helps me put my head around a five-year undergraduate program.<br>
Thanks for continuing this dialogue. I'm also wrapping my head around my academically oriented kid going into music. It's tough..his theory teacher was a trumpet performance major and says it's a cruel world out there...</p>
<p>Thanks, Weenie and Susan...crikey...are there even 250 trumpet playing kids out there? Good heavens!!
I'm not doing what is right for him if he's going to do trumpet performance..he's in a very academic prep school with tons of homework. And I mean tons...actually, it's quite absurd. He's getting hired all over the place...adult symphonies, adult gigs...he could make a very meager but very busy living if he quit school at this point. Conductors ask for him all the time, but needs to start his own audition stuff, which he hasn't had a chance to do. He can play anything, but I know he has to have it down cold. He's extremely naturally talented...gorgeous sound...can play any horn and transpose anything. But..he's spending way too much time on gigs and not enough on audition material. Time to hit the Charlier if he's really serious about this stuff. He's only 15...how does he really know? I'm so hesitant on all of this, which is why it's nice to have the folks on this board to talk with...you know a lot more than I do about it.</p>
<p>I would definitely arrange for trumpet lessons during his college tours, if at all possible. My son, after acceptances were in, made a whirlwind tour of his top four choices and was able to arrange lessons at three of them. It really helped him decide where to go. Another hint he gave was to visit the practice rooms while there, not just to practice but to meet other trumpet players, so you can find out more about the school from the students' viewpoint.</p>
<p>Oh, my son also applied to Northwestern, but was rejected. According to his trumpet teacher here at home, the trumpet teachers there are the top in the nation and turning out the best performers of anywhere. My son would like to try for grad school there.</p>
<p>250 trumpets? Unbelievable!</p>
<p>How does one find out the number of applicants for different instruments, and the number of open spots at a particular conservatory? It seems kind of odd that the conservatory would even waste time listening to kids on an instrument for which there is no opening; not to mention the hopes it dashes for hte musician.</p>
<p>How does one find these things out? Not on the music school websites I have frequented...</p>
<p>My son knew about the openings (or lack thereof) at Oberlin because of the student he knew there. Although Oberlin had no real openings for trumpet, they still had auditions because they would have been willing to make room if a really outstanding student auditioned. (I never heard if they did accept any trumpets last year...) </p>
<p>You may sometimes be able to find out openings by calling the music department or talking to the professor in that instrument. When my son attended a college fair for the fine and performing arts, the representatives of a couple of the colleges were able to tell him how many openings they had in his instrument. A lot of times, however, I don't think you can really know.</p>
<p>At the smaller conservatories, my son called the admissions office or teachers with whom he had previously taken lessons to ask if they were planning to accept any trumpet majors for fall. He ultimately did not even submit the application to Curtis because they told him they were not auditioning trumpet players this year. Regarding knowing how many students the various schools plan to accept: the kids applying usually know current students from camps, festivals, etc. and have a very efficient information network. I think my son and his friends knew who was accepted, waitlisted, and rejected from where even before their own parents did.</p>
<p>Try to do a live audition for every school your son is truly interested in attending. While they do taped auditions, the live ones are the best. DS did not audition at Northwestern for undergrad. He will consider it for grad school. He is doing a weeklong trumpet masterclass with Barbara Butler and Charles Geyer this summer at Northwestern. Try to arrange a lesson with the private teachers at the colleges. Some schools are very accommodating with this and others are not. Some charge and some don't. It's a good investment, in my opinion although my son liked all the teachers at all the schools. My son is in Terry Everson's trumpet studio and Terry is his primary instrumental teacher. He does occasionally take lessons with others just for a different perspective. He does not do this on a regular basis....he doesn't need to. And the mom speaking...Terry is a wonderful person in addition to being a terrific teacher. I hope your son has a terrific time at BUTI. My son loved it there...for two summers. It's a great experience. I just noticed your son is only 15. One resource you should very much use is his current private teacher. Is he involved in a conservatory precollege program, youth symphony, or something of that sort? Those folks can be remarkably helpful too.</p>
<p>Thanks for this! Yes, son does all the youth symphony, etc stuff. We've found trumpet teachers in this area to be very laid back and slightly jaded. Few trumpet players from around here get into the top trumpet schools. Very unlike my other son's violin teachers who are extremely intense and seem to know the score at every music school around. My son has been the driver for most of his auditions. He has a mentor at the local symphony who went to Julliard, however, so we're hoping he'll be helpful when it comes time to audition.</p>
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Binx...how did you feel about dropping off child in Manhatten? What instrument does he play? How is he finding Julliard? What did he do to prepare for that all-important 10 minute audition? One of son's old teachers says its where "dogs eat dogs." Is that your son's experience or does he find the environment supportive?
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<p>Actually, I didn't drop him off - I put him on a plane (from Germany) and said call us or email us as soon as you get a chance. I was very leary of sending him to NYC at all. He doesn't have a lot of natural street smarts. It was fun to visit him last year, and watch him hailing cabs for us, and knowing all the good places to eat, and being thoroughly at home.</p>
<p>He is loving it there. Not everyone does. His roommate just transferred to Harvard; different field completely. The maxim, "If you can imagine yourself doing anything besides music, do it," has a parallel at Juilliard. Juilliard is all music, all the time. My kid, like yours, was a good student in high school, and spent a lot of time doing homework. He was and is thrilled to be out from under that burden. However, I do think academic ability matters there. Most of my S's friends were top students. Juilliard doesn't take musical recommendations; your ability is judged by resume and audition. They don't take SAT scores. They DO request a recommendation from your HS English teacher! That's the only one. They want their students to be literate. My S received an award (enclosed with his acceptance) based on combination of talent and academic achievement.</p>
<p>Recently, someone mentioned that they found Juilliard to be "stuck up." The students there are very confident, and feel a certain level of pride and achievement just by being at the school. Some interpret this to be a negative. My S has not found his peers to be anything but helpful and encouraging. Once this year he had a bad audition, and another student (grad student) spent quite some time talking with him, letting him know that all the students thought he was "amazing for his age" and such. On the other hand, when he has a good audition, he is likely to know it first from other students, who call to excitedly share the news. Students get together on their own to play duets, seek each other out for assistance, share gigs, and so on.</p>
<p>My S plays horn, and his teacher is also the horn teacher at Curtis. He did NOT have a lesson with this man prior to attending there. We tried, but were unsuccessful at putting anything together. I was nervous; I had heard all the rumors about needing to know someone, and having the teacher go to bat for you, and such. My S requested this teacher based on the advice of several people who knew both S and the teacher, and felt they'd be a good match. However, when at all possible, I do think it's a good idea to schedule a lesson. (S also had one person tell him he did NOT think S and this teacher would be a good match. Fortunately, he was wrong.)</p>
<p>My S only applied to 4 schools, so I don't have as much experience with other schools as others on this board. But there is a wealth of experience represented here, and there are a great many quality programs out there. No one school has a corner on jobs. (Although I understand Arizona comes close for trumpet!) As far as schools vs. orchestra jobs, there are many factors - too many to discuss here. The main one is audition, but there are times, for instance, when a certain "sound" will affect the decision. A classmate of my S made it to the finals in a recent audition, but was ultimately rejected because her sound was "too soloistic." </p>
<p>From reading through these threads, it sounds like your S will be a viable candidate at many good schools. If you haven't already, you might want to read the thread started by BassDad about auditioning:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=146386%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=146386</a></p>
<p>One of the tips on that thread is to try not to schedule your favorite schools' auditions first. Get some experience elsewhere first. S did have 2 very good auditions under his belt by the time he got to Curtis and Juilliard. Those two (and Manhattan, which my S did NOT apply to) usually have their auditions the same weekend (late Feb / early March), because so many of the same students apply to all three schools. Having the audition at Curtis first helped S relax, I think, at Juilliard. He felt the worst was over. He had the audition of his life at Juilliard. If he didn't get in, he would have at least known it wasn't because he didn't get to show himself well enough.</p>
<p>(PS -- My D is a violinist, too! We've had the opposite problem - with the horn teachers all being gung-ho, and the violin teachers jaded.)</p>
<p>allmusic:</p>
<p>I only know that stat because when my son took trumpet at Eastman through the community division, his teacher was on the collegiate faculty (part time) and plays in the Rochester Philharmonic Orch. We are often there during auditions and one year I just asked him. (I suspect that schools are not anxious to devulge these numbers.) I could be wrong about this, but I believe that Eastman will audition anyone who wants to audition. I presume that number also includes tapes and off-site auditions. It is daunting though, isn't it? I suspect the odds are even worse for string players, who compete with even more kids because of the larger number of international players.</p>
<p>Binx's statement, "Juilliard is all music, all the time" seems like it probably holds true for most of the hard-core music conservatories. It sure looks like it applies to Eastman too.</p>
<p>Thanks, Weenie. As we proceed here, my DS becomes more sure that he wants to study jazz, and to continue with classical piano with private lessons only, not as a piano performance major.</p>
<p>I suspect jazz may be less competitive than classical strings,for example, but still have no idea on odds. Do you know?</p>
<p>(Sorry for the subthread...could have PMed you!)</p>
<p>Yes, I believe the jazz program at Eastman is slightly easier to get into - partly because it is very new. I'll see if I can get some scoop on that. The kids I know who are in the jazz program LOVE it.</p>
<p>The jazz program does not appear to be easier to get into. Jazz at Eastman has so many applicants that it is one of only a few areas which require screening with a pre-audition tape.</p>
<p>Edad is right about the pre-audition. I just went searching on the Eastman website. Roughly 10% of about 150 musicians who send in pre-audition tapes are eventually accepted into Eastman jazz, but this is across instruments, and includes bachelor, masters and doctorate candidates.</p>
<p>So, while very competitive, there are not the sheer numbers that audition for a single classical instrument (no 250 trumpets).</p>