Oberlin

College Majors Music Major
41

<p>This all comes down to what is the child's passion! Wife and I have had many serious discussions about the reality of music careers with D who's about to enter Peabody this fall. She has her eyes open and she can't wait. As a parent, if you can fuel your child's passion and you know they're undertaking that endeavor with all the appropriate advice and knowledge, then everyone can sleep at night and be happy.</p>

<p>Let's face it folks, just about ANY undergraduate degree nowadays with the exception of teaching and possibly engineering is NOT very marketable. I got my BA in Biology and still had to get my Ph.D. before real job opportunities were available. So it is not very realistic for us to think that our children will be entering the workforce as newly graduated BMs, just like any of our friends with children graduating from any bachelor's program.</p>

<p>At least we're letting them pursue their passion. That alone is a testament to our dedication and love, as well as all the $ for instruments, reeds, mouth pieces, lessons, taxi service, etc....</p>

42

<p>I have always thought that one advantage of the double major is the whole idea of options, and how that takes the pressure off the situation, which in turn makes it easier to do well. When it is an all or nothing audition, performance, etc., how can it not be fraught with paralyzing nervousness? I used to supervise a voice class program at a major school, principally taught by graduate students, up to 5-7 sections offered a semester. We held joint juries at the end of each semester, where I was the only regular faculty member, and graduate students graded each others students. The members of the classes were not voice majors, but some were music majors, keyboard, strings, brass, sacred music (organ), etc., and others were undergrads and graduate students from various other majors across the university. Those kids were far more comfortable performing the juries than the voice majors I heard. I truly believe they came closer to doing their best, too. Why? because it was not so crucial, it was just because they loved to sing. I also think those kids had a real leg up during any possible interview situation, because they had learned how to present themselves, standing alone in front of the piano, nothing between them and the world, and having to bare their musical souls through their voices. </p>

<p>Because of this I always advised my students to have various options in their future plans, and to do positive things toward preparing for those options. At the end of their studies they would be ahead, regardless of fate or their talent. Sometimes it was a double major, but other times it was other things within music, like church music, or music technology, etc. It gave them more control over their lives, too. </p>

<p>My D did double major in vocal performance and foreign languages, and it gave her a needed advantage to earn fellowship for European study, all the other applicants could only apply to schools in England. I would advise anyone studying anything to develop another language.</p>

43

<p>IZ, I agree. Very few undergrad degrees have a lot of workforce demand. Advanced training and/or work experience is necessary to begin to develop a career. I personally think that the discipline, enjoyment and dedication that is part of music training is very valuable. I also believe music training fosters an important balance between competition and teamwork. There is some evidence that music training makes important improvements in cognition, but those theories are not well studied.</p>

44

<p>binx - yes, I'm still very much in the trenches at Lincoln Center. BTW, congratulations to your son for getting into and flourishing at Juilliard. </p>

<p>symphonymom - yes, I would go into music again. I've been working in NY for @ 25 years, and sometimes there is a lot of drudgery. However, half a dozen times a year or so, there'll be some magical concert which reminds me of how great music can be. Also, I am lucky that my immediate section mates are good friends -- this is often not the case and is one of the big reasons for discontent amongst symphony musicians.</p>

<p>One question for any musician to ponder is what constitutes success? Playing in the NY Phil? That's success. What about playing Phantom of the Opera? My good friend, a trumpet player you've never heard of named Lowell Hershey has been the principal trumpet of that Broadway show for the last 17 years! Say he averages 5 shows a week, with 2 weeks off a year, that's 50 weeks * 5 shows per week * 17 years = 4,250 performances of Phantom. There's a lot of free time in that show and he's used it well, teaching himself both French and Spanish by reading through the Harry Potter series in those languages. Most of the "happy" musicians I know have serious interests outside of music. In my case, I have a part-time day job as a programmer; one of my buddies has a video editing business; several years back, Dave Langlitz, long-time principal trombone at the Met took a two year sabbatical and got a masters in film directing at UCLA -- he still is involved with producing and directing indy films.</p>

<p>I think binx's all-in philosophy is the best for most kids. I don't think its the only possible approach. Here's an example: Yale. If your son is the academic star you suggest then he might get into Yale. Yale has NO undergraduate music program. However, they do have, IMO, the best musician who happens to play the trumpet teaching in their graduate program, Alan Dean (it's funny, I made the Alan Dean pitch on another thread about trumpet programs, he should pay me a commission). He could take lessons, play in the graduate ensembles, and get a Yale undergrad degree in whatever. If music is still his passion four years later, there'll be plenty of graduate schools that would be happy to have him.</p>

<p>One last thought about playing the trumpet, or any brass instrument. Unlike piano or violin, it's not really helpful (or even possible) to practice trumpet for many hours a day. At 15, I don't think one should be practicing for more than a max of 2 hrs a day (this is real practicing, not just playing in an ensemble). If your son is able to get in an hour or so nightly during the school year and two hours during the summer then he will be doing very well.<br>
Playing maturity almost always comes later with wind and brass players.</p>

45

<p>If I had to do it all again, I would have completed MY bachelors degree in music performance (vocal). My son is a vocal performance major and we fully support it. The bottom line is that he is committed to this art. If he pursues a masters degree it may or may not be in music. That is next years' decision. Honestly, a degree in music shows discipline, commitment, etc. There is nothing wrong with that.</p>

46

<p>I so appreciate all of the posts on this thread. Lots to think about, lots of different experiences...</p>

<p>My feeling is that there are no guarentees for anyone in this world, no matter what the major. Personally, I admire all of these student musicians who demonstrate such persistence and passion. I have also heard that music majors do very well in grad school admissions in fields other than music, because the dedication and commitment of musicians is very applicable in other areas, should people change their minds about future plans. </p>

<p>Let'sgoMets, my apologies if I misconstrued your post as hypocritical (it's awfully hard to read tone, although I try), and congrats on your long career at Lincoln Center!</p>

47

<p>My son recently commented that he was ready to strangle the next person who asked him what he would do if he didn't make it as a classical musician. (The next person happened to be his brother, who is, I am relieved to say, still breathing.) He is fully aware of the shrinking audience for classical music and the small number of positions available in symphonies, as well as the even smaller number that pay enough to live on. He is also aware that he is nowhere near the best trumpet student in the country, or in his school. He has a lot of work ahead of him to catch up. However, trumpet performance is his dream and his passion. At this point he must give himself fully to that dream. If it does not work out, he says he will take the classes needed to teach music or find another way to work in the music field. However, right now he must do what he must do.</p>

<p>An interesting side note: He has recently started thinking of minoring in math. As a person who also enjoys intellectual stimulation, he says he feels like he isn't really having to think enough studying music. (although theory can be a challenge at times) The benefit of not attending a conservatory is that he easily can add a few intellectually challenging classes to his schedule. (emphasis on FEW)</p>

48

<p>Now that I've been paged a couple of times, I finally noticed this thread.</p>

<p>For the OP:Oberlin is indeed a lovely school with opportunities for both academics and music. The weather is not one of its better points, at least from about the beginning of November through the end of March, and sometimes for another week or two either side of that period. It tends to be chilly and, since it is only about 12 miles off Lake Erie, either damp or snowy. It can be glorious for the first and last six weeks of the school year.</p>

<p>Students there tend to be intelligent, talented, committed, and, as I am sure you have heard, liberal. While there are a few who like to get in your face with what I call the "hippier than thou" attitude, they are mostly very respectful of each others' beliefs and sensibilities. The conservatory students in particular seem very mutually supportive. The spirit of cooperation far outweighs the petty kind of competitiveness you see in some places. They mingle well without a lot of overt separation between conservatory and college.</p>

<p>I have not had the privelege of meeting more than a few faculty members, but I have been uniformly impressed by those few. While you might expect a certain segment of the faculty to be urbane, witty and charming, nearly all of those whom I have met appear to be so. I have been particulary impressed by their breadth of knowledge, public speaking skills and ability to think on their feet. Perhaps that is an old Engineer's reaction to a first meeting with the big dogs at a very good LAC, but I have also seen far worse at schools with bigger reputations.</p>

<p>The Oberlin Common Data Sets for 2003 through 2005 can be found at <a href="http://peacock.adm.oberlin.edu/www/cds/cds_explain.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://peacock.adm.oberlin.edu/www/cds/cds_explain.html&lt;/a> and you should find a lot of raw information there. Other slightly dated but still interesting information can be found by exploring links off of <a href="http://peacock.adm.oberlin.edu/ir.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://peacock.adm.oberlin.edu/ir.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>My daughter thoroughly enjoyed her first year there. She reported no problems at all with coordinating the work for double bass performance and mathematics, other than that things tend to get pretty busy toward the end of the semester and into exam week. She has had nothing but cooperation from teachers and administrators in getting the classes she needs. </p>

<p>For FluteMomLiz: Daughter reports that drugs, sex and protest marches are present in abundance for those who are so inclined. There is not a lot of peer pressure to partake in any of the above for those who would rather study or practice. The recreational drug of choice is marijuana and those who use it do so fairly openly. There are the usual number of casual hookups going on, but the size of the school and the fact that everyone knows everyone else tend to limit the choices after an initial period of experimentation. Opportunities for political expression, both orthodox and un- are legion. For some, it is the beginning of a career and for others, a welcome distraction from academics.</p>

49

<p>LetsGoMet...you are awesome. Thank you!! My son thanks you. I am trying to get used to the idea of an hour of concentrated practice being enough (yes, I'm a string player). He does concentrated practice...with many lapses into Pictures, Pines and Petruschka (I call it the three "P's"...and if I hear that ballerina song again I will shoot myself). It's the lapses we're working on. Would like to replace them with scales, arpeggios, and more Arbans. This may be the string player coming out again. What is this brass maturity everyone talks about? I really don't understand it. For string players, it's the emotional maturity for interpretation. With brass instruments, there seems to be a physical maturity that is required. But I don't fully understand what it is.
I think a career such as yours at Lincoln Center is a tremendous success. Period. Thank you so much for your advice! My son has been circling Yale. I think you have been the one to encourage him to actually take that third SAT II. It's one of the only schools that requires one.<br>
BassDad...thank you so much! You answered everything I wanted to know about Oberlin...it was very helpful.
I really appreciate everyone's input. It's been wonderful. Thank you!</p>

50

<p>I'll pipe in...string players can practice for hours and hours on end, doing all kinds of different things....once their fingers are sufficiently "strengthened" (Bassdad...I know I don't have the right term...help me here...) and they are tough at the tips. Brass players simply cannot play continuously for the same length of time. The best advice my trumpet playing son got (just FYI, he practices more than three hours per day) was to break the practice time into smaller units with breaks doing something else in between. His trumpet teacher said that more than an hour at once of continuous play is too much...even an hour may be too much. So DS does 20-30 minutes of playing in each unit. He might start with technical studies or etudes. The next unit might be orchestral excerpts, the next solo studies. And then a repeat of all the above (he's currently working on three different solo pieces). He tapes most of his practices and the "in between" time is used to hear himself, and to listen to others playing pieces or excerpts. When taking classes, the in between time is used for things like theory homework too. At home here, he will also come up to the piano and sight sing the pieces he is working on. In fact, sight singing the works is an intregal part of all of his practice sessions. RE: the maturity end...many brass and wind players do not even begin formal studies until they are in the upper elementary grades, while string players start as early as preschool. Technically, the strings have an edge here just in terms of years of study. Also, the playing maturity and the quality of the sound of brass players really changes as their physical bodies mature too. You need a lot of wind and control to have a mature, and well controlled sound. While some kids are "naturals" and seem to have this from their first blat on the trumpet, the reality is that many talented wind players don't come into that until later on in their playing careers.</p>

51

<p>Thanks, Thumper! This makes a great deal of sense and I'll pass it along to my son. He does break up the sessions but he's very stubborn and likes to push it. I LOVE the sightsinging idea with the piano...brilliant. Taping sessions is also brilliant. We will start that this summer! I also wonder if he's breathing correctly. As a string player, I tend towards the technical ...my son has not yet come across a true technique-oriented trumpet teacher (my other son has this in spades, so it's a stark contrast). I think he needs to practice scales and studies, but teachers do not focus on this as much as the excerpts and solos (on the theory that he picks up the technique by studying Scheherezade and Hummel). Don't know about this.</p>

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<p>i would like to "ditto" the comments of bassdad with regard to the oberlin culture. my S, not in the conservatory, just finished his first year and loved the challenging academics and supportive community. he's not a hippie or a hipster or a vegan or a stoner or an ultraliberal or any of those stereotypes. he definitely encountered a lot of super PC types, which he found more amusing than anything else. but he describes the environment as tolerant and accepting and, above all, intellectually engaging. his happiness at the school makes writing those (huge!) tuition checks a little more bearable.</p>

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<p>As long as we are passing along practice tips, I will add the notion of practicing in front of a full-length mirror. If you don't have one in your practice area, Ikea sells them for $10-$15. It is a great way to spot problems with posture and with technique in general.</p>

<p>Thumper: perhaps there is a fancy Italian term for finger strength, but I do not know it. I just say "finger strength." Calluses are a definite plus and a big incentive to practice every day so you keep them once you have them.</p>

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<p>This looked like a good thread to post a response placed on a trumpet message board. By way of background you should know that when Matt Muckey, the 21-year-old from Northwestern won the 3rd/Asst Principal trumpet position in the NY Phil, there were actually two trumpet positions being filled, that one and the 2nd trumpet job. The other was won by a trumpet player at the Met named Jim Ross. ---After the winners were announced Craig Morris, the former principal of the Chicago Symphony wrote an article in which he surmised that many trumpet players, who labored long "in the trenches," might be demoralized by someone like Muckey but that they should remember that they were in the music field because they all truly loved music. --This was Jim Ross' response to the message board posting about Muckey and the Morris article which I think is somewhat inspiring: </p>

<p>"Yes it is true, I'm not a "babe in the woods", however I feel that the NYP made their decisions without prejudice to age or experience. The ranges of our ages and experience show that.They simply chose who the felt would do the best job for them. I did not hear Matt's audition but undoubtedly he played his ### off. I look forward to hearing him myself.
Craig's article seemed right on the mark. If you love it, do it. I didn't even start auditioning until I was 30 yrs old. The MET was only my 4th audition. I waited until I felt I was ready. As a previous poster said, some flowers bloom early, some bloom later.
There were times when I was freelancing and just getting by and took great joy in what I was doing; that more than anything motivated me and still does.
Just my perspective .
Jim Ross</p>

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<p>Hi PatN! When Matt won that seat, he truly inspired all of the young trumpet players around. My kid was one of them...and it was discussed endlessly among his friends. Jim Ross is equally inspiring...he personifies that passion for music which transcends the hardships along the way (which aren't even hardships for him because he is in love with what he does). Thank you so much for that post. It was great!</p>