Observations about/from current students

Colleges and Universities A-Z Smith College
1

<p>My daughter and I attended a major "prospect party" for Smith students in Los Angeles today. There were about 10 alumnae--host, area coordinators, people working the bar (ice tea and Arnold Palmers and water...nobody get excited)--ranging from graduates of '51 to '04, and two staff from Smith, including Linda Jones, the head of the Engineering program, and a woman from Development whose name now escapes me. There about 15-20 current students, me in the role of a guinea pig parent for parents of prospects to talk to...and, coincidentally, draw the parents off from their daughters who could then talk to the students without parental monitoring (at least that's how the play was diagrammed). And then there were the raison d'etre, some several dozen prospective students and a parent or two. It was a very crowded party, the house was more packed than I had ever seen it.</p>

<p>The students attending such an event are obviously self-selected but this group constituted about 20 percent of those from the L.A. area who elected to come for two hours on a Sunday afternoon and be interrogated by the prospects.</p>

<p>Most of the first hour was spent with prospects talking to individual students, asking whatever questions they had in mind. I spoke to several parents, often with 2-3 others coming to listen while I answered a question from one. Everything from the distance, the weather, to the lesbian presence at Smith...this last being something that D observed is better as a parent-to-parent or student-to-student discussion...was covered.</p>

<p>Then Vivian ('51) called everyone together into her living room...it was <em>packed</em> and D said the current students were all hot de-hydrated as they were gathered at one end of the room...and gave an overview of Smith that jumped from point to point in a peripatetic fashion. I hope I have half the energy she does when I'm her age. </p>

<p>Then each of the current students gave a brief summary of themselves: name, local high school, major, year at Smith, what they like most, what they don't like about Smith. What they liked was all over the place, from the accessible professors, to the House residential system, to Northampton, to "Smith lets me do everything." Most of them couldn't come with a single thing they didn't like. Nobody mentioned the "no guys" thing or the abundance of PC on campus...issues that have been mentioned in the past and which I think are legitimate, fwiw. A few mentioned the weather...these are SoCal girls, after all.</p>

<p>But what struck me the most as I wove my way through the room and kept an ear out while listening to conversations was the passion and excitement that all of these young women displayed as they talked about their college experience.</p>

<p>What really brought it home was nearly an hour after the party was "over," several of the current students were still clustered talking about how much they loved various professors (vehemently disagreeing about one), what research methodology they adopted in writing such-and-such a paper, the quotes used as prompts in such-and-such a final. One of the senior alumnae and I just looked at each other: the enthusiasm and the passion they displayed as they burbled just can't be faked. And that, o stranger who passeth by, is one of the best unsolicited testimoneys I can forward about Smith.</p>

2

<p>TD, hope you don't mind. I just copied the last two paragraphs from this post and sent it to Ecape on her hypocritical judgement of Smith. </p>

<p>I am always pleased to hear such ramblings about women who are happy at Smith, and who have their heads on straight. I would say that they are the majority of women at Smith, not the minority, and that honesty and integrity are built into the system. I hope my D has as much love and concern for Smith when (and if) she attends. This kind of comaraderie is special, and everything I have read and heard about this fine institution has been like that. It just makes it more special when you experience it first hand!</p>

3

<p>{ the enthusiasm and the passion they displayed as they burbled just can't be faked.}</p>

<p>Some parents are no different :)</p>

4

<p>RLT, just what is it you're trying to say?</p>

5

<p>RLT, just what is it you're trying to say?}</p>

<p>Many parents are as enthusiastic as the students/alumnae. At times you would think I --and another parent I could name :) ---was the alumna and not my wife or someday my daughter
What did you think I was doing, baiting the big boys?</p>

<p>Our parties are better. We do the backyard pool, hot tub with an open bar. Not to worry, we have limos to drive the drunks.</p>

6

<p>Here are some of my observations, that may help to cool BJM's blood: Smith women are generally genuinly friendly, socially graceful, and enthusiastic people. I met some of the most charismatic leaders in Smith Dems, and a woman's advocacy group, both of which I was active in and made many friends through. I do not hesitate to say I met MANY extremely likeable people there, moreso than I had any place I had ever been before. </p>

<p>About 1/3 of Smithies are gay, and though I personally am straight, I made many good gay friends, and learned a lot from them about how humans perceive ourselves and how to be an empowered woman. Smith also has this large minority population of legacy "old-Smithies," who are old-money east coast types, who CAN be a bit flaky. Smith also has this small population of dedicated activists, which is more prominent than activists on many elite college campuses, which is where I made a lot of my friends as mentioned above. Smith does fairly well with minorities (30%, I believe). I am sort of an honorary muslim when I am there b/c of my friends, but my best Somalian friend did say she feels out-of-place at times with so many white, rich girls. I suspect she might have felt this way at most elite colleges. In case you did not know, Smith is extremely liberal. There are like 13 college Republicans.</p>

<p>In terms of how academically focused students are, I have to say I felt like the range was more similar to a good state school than to a school known for being intense like Swarthmore. There are Smithies who work very hard to finish most of their work and hardly party, and make mostly As and go the best grad schools. There are a sizeable number of Smithies (maybe 1/4) who go to a few parties every weekend and hardly do any homework, and occasionally come to class noticeably drunk or stoned. Most Smithies fall somewhere in-between the two extremes. Really, you have to sit in on several classes to get some feel of where you'd be among the students there.</p>

<p>Departments that are especially strong at Smith, such that Amherst kids come to Smith to take their classes, are Political Science and Chemistry. Dance and Art are also strong.</p>

<p>If you are interested in the more minority, gay, and generally offbeat student population, you should live near central campus (where I live). If you are more interested in being near parties geared towards straight people and the more old-money population, you should live near the quad.</p>

<p>Please feel free to ask me any questions you may have, and I'll do my best to answer specifically. I have gotten more practice than I wish I had with analysis and comparison of the many different facets of colleges.</p>

7

<p>I have to point out to BJM and TD that students who take their time to come to a prospie-meeting are likely to be students who are very passionate about the school. You will find students at any school who lover or hate it, and many that are somewhere in-between (like me).</p>

8

<p>who go to a few parties every weekend and hardly do any homework, and occasionally come to class noticeably drunk or stoned}}}</p>

<p>LOL- some of the best weed can be found at another college down the road (not Hampshire) The students have more money and and can afford the best drugs.
A stoner from our high school, albiet a bright one, was admitted to Amherst... Go figger.</p>

9

<p>{{There are like 13 college Republicans.}}</p>

<p>More like 30 active members and another 70 on the mailing list. Not exactly a majority but they are there :)</p>

10

<p>I never applied to Amherst, actually. Just because its academic programs weren't a great match for me. I knew an Amherst kid through a 5-College class I took who thought Smithies in general were harder working, actually! Which isn't to say Amherst kids aren't very bright. I think there is a difference between how bright someone is and how hard they work -but I think in real-life harder-working is preferable any day, with a combination of the two being ideal.</p>

11

<p>Ecape, my OP pointed out that the students attending were a self-selected group. However, as a percentage of the locals, it was also an astoundingly large percentage. And others who have attended in years past were on vacation, traveling, etc....one of D's friends had just gotten in from Paris the night before and was jetlagged unto slumber.</p>

<p>On the notion of the academic climate at Smith being like a good state school: TheMom is an upper-level administrator at UCLA and has worked there for more than a quarter century; I know the place inside out and am myself heavily involved with one of the alumni groups. UCLA is one of the top public U's in the country, along with UC Berkeley, UVA, and U/Michigan. The academic environment at Smith is light years ahead of UCLA.</p>

<p>Opinions about colleges are like Impressionist paintings: many splotches of color...you shouldn't pay overly much attention to any single one. However, the aggregate picture of Smith, whether derived from placements in graduate and professional schools, to the more immediate anecdotal experience of my D, her friends, parents-as-observers, and even such eye-rolling metrics as US NEWS rankings, all argue against your perception. You don't like it. Fine. You feel you should have been admitted elsewhere. Fine. You're thinking about tranferring. Fine. Smith doesn't have the precise major you want. Fine. Saying Smith is the equivalent of a good state school just makes you look silly and as if you're grasping for self-justification.</p>

12

<p>Well, really the only state school I had to compare Smith to was the U of I, and their mid-50% ACTs are virtually identical (25-30). My parents love the U of I, and think of it as a serious academic place. Both the University of Virginia and University of Michigan rank a little above Smith on the wallstreet journal feeder school list for top grad and professional programs and UCLA does not. But I have not done more than visit a few classes at the U of I, so perhaps you're right about Smith being LIGHTYEARS more academically focused. I'll concede that particular comparison to you, without changing anything else I said in the above long post, simply because I don't know for sure.</p>

13

<p>{...the aggregate picture of Smith, whether derived from placements in graduate and professional schools, to the more immediate anecdotal experience of my D, her friends, parents-as-observers, and even such eye-rolling metrics as US NEWS rankings, all argue against your perception. You don't like it. Fine. You feel you should have been admitted elsewhere. Fine. You're thinking about tranferring. Fine. Smith doesn't have the precise major you want. Fine. Saying Smith is the equivalent of a good state school just makes you look silly and as if you're grasping for self-justification.}</p>

<p>That about says it all! Great response TD, and keep sticking up for a great school! Ecape, perhaps if you wrote about your unfounded concerns about Smith at another post; say "Chances?", or "college search," ,aybe you'd find some empathy; but to put Smith down on the Smith site is plain looking for trouble. Understand something, those of us that post here like Smith, consider it to be great fit, are happy with the educational we or our daughter's receive at Smith, find Smith academically challenging, and know full well that Smith is an very highly-rated (and deservedly so) LAC that provides us with opportunities seldom found at other colleges. Deal with it! And as TD said...don't try to justify your unhappiness to us by putting the college that we so dearly care about down. There are lots (if not all) posters on this thread that would love to help you find the right "fit." Knowledgeable, caring, and intelligent people who could help you find the perfect place (if that really exists.) But if I were a division 1 coach trying to recruit a top athlete, I wouldn't start the conversation by telling him that his parents are stupid.</p>

14

<p>I wouldn't consider average people at a top state U "stupid" -I'm sure they would LOVE to hear you say that. As I said above, both UVa and UMich are around #30 in terms of sending graduates to top programs. Practically all of my family went to top state U's. BJM, I started this argument a couple of days ago, and although my intention WAS to start a debate, it was not really to offend people, and since it has I guess that means the OP of my thread was poorly done. </p>

<p>I would genuinly love to know more about this "help," both you and rlt have mentioned. Did you have something specific in mind?</p>

15

<p>Maybe if you ask politely and don't get the little hairs on the back of our necks to stand up! :rolleyes:</p>

16

<p>Well, if you would please help me explore other options, I WOULD appreciate it immensly. I am not actually trying to search Quixotically for a "perfect" college, because I realize no such thing exists. However, if I was to list characteristics of my ideal school, numbered loosely from 1-10 with 1 being most important and a tie for 5, they would be below. I realize not all of these things are present in any one school, just being comprehensive.</p>

<p>Things similar to Smith:
2) intimate learning environment, with professors who cater to students
5a)pretty campus/outdoorsy atmosphere
7)generally progressive students and faculty
3)non-competitive learning atmosphere
4)solid academic offerings in a variety of depts
8)at least comparable socioeconomic and ethnocultural diversity to Smith
9)dance parties are a popular social activity</p>

<p>Things less-similar to Smith:
1) strong environmental studies program, particularly offering class and research/internship opportunities in environmental biology and environmental policy
6)co-ed
5b)a somewhat higher % of students who are prepared to participate/debate regularly in class (I'd consider 1/2 good) a somewhat higher % of students who are extremely comparable or better than me academically (I'd consider 1/4 good)
10)warm climate</p>

<p>And of course, a college I could get accepted by is I suppose another necessesity:) *gulp</p>

17

<p>I'm hesitant to list all the colleges I've considered outrightly, b/c rlt brought up the excellent point of the dangers of TMI on the internet. But if any parents on this forum would be possibly interested in offering suggestions about where to look or how to go about the process, as BJM and rlt have suggested, ask away at anything you want to know. If not, I apologize for taking up thread-space.</p>

18

<p>Any reason academic rigor didn't explicitly make the list since it was such a sore point in earlier posts?</p>

<p>Carleton hits many of the high priority points, but strikes out on 3, 8 and of course 10.</p>

<p>Your best bet might be the Claremont system in CA.</p>

19

<p>Carleton is not accepting transfers this year anyway. What do you mean by Carleton being competitive? I had gotten the impression classes there were built to encourage collaborative learning. #10 is the last one on the list because it's the one I'd most-easily throw away.</p>

<p>Academics in the sense of [#1 and #5b] are the most important things to me that Smith lacks, so I'd say #1, #5b, and #6 are really the meat-and-potatos of why I want to transfer. #5b basically translates into more academic rigor, because it means profs could hold students to higher standards, and it would effect the classes' curves. I'll mention a couple of schools that seem to have all those characteristics except #10, because I've already mentioned them in a previous post: Middlebury and Bowdoin. The only problem with them is they are SO selective for transfer admissions, although I have been told I am a reasonable candidate.</p>

20

<p>Barnard is a college I could probably get into that because of its affiliation with Columbia fulfills most of the most important things, its major drawback from my perspective being that it is in a city. I'll probably have a better sense of how I feel about that if I visit the campus.</p>