<p>Where do you suppose they rank?</p>
<p>Cutthroat competitiveness VS. Copereative learning and students wanting to do their personal best.</p>
<p>Nathansub,
Very interesting question that is a pretty difficult one to objectively quantify. The schools I most commonly read about on CC as real competitive hotbeds are the Wharton area of U Penn and the pre-med area of Johns Hopkins. Some other undergraduate business schools also have this reputation. The question is a critical one in terms of determining if a college is a personal “fit.” Some love the hyper-competitive nature of a Wharton while others might prefer the collegiality of a Dartmouth. I share your interest in reading others’ views on the climate at various of the top schools. </p>
<p>Re schools that are known for their cooperative student environments, IMO several of the Midwestern and Southern schools (Northwestern, U Chicago, Notre Dame, Duke, Rice, Vanderbilt, U Virginia, U North Carolina, Wake Forest) are probably better known for this and reflect the regional personalities. Students are still very smart and very driven at these colleges, but my personal impression is that they generally work better with others and show a higher level of personal humility and consideration and respect for others in the postgraduate workplace.</p>
<p>You should have added WashU to the list of schools where students are on the cooperative side rather than cut-throat side. I know I've read some posts in that forum that even on the pre-med track, students have helped others out by cleaning equipment so a lab could be done on time.</p>
<p>^I've actually heard the opposite thing about premed students at WashU, from a WashU student.</p>
<p>But I think the important thing is that such experiences at any college are a reflection of the individuals in a particular class/section/major and not on the college.</p>
<p>Well, maybe it only happened once and it was so remarkable someone posted about it. Anyway, the entire college isn't pre-med after all, and the guidebook commentary that it has a "nice Midwestern vibe" and students cooperate with each other is pretty accurate from what I hear from the student I know who goes there.</p>
<p>To me, not only is a cooperative environment important, but that students don't talk about grades with each other. Not even out of sensitivity for others, but just because they don't think it's a worthwhile subject.</p>
<p>I don't really know what a "Midwestern vibe" is, but I guess it's a "nobody cares" attitude. Back home on the East Coast, I think people are faster to make judgments about how much you spend on your clothing, what grades you're getting, etc.</p>
<p>I have heard that Cornell is extremely cut-throat.... beats out places such as Harvard & Wharton in this area.</p>
<p>hawkette, regarding Wharton: don't confuse course difficulty and lack of grade inflation with hyper-competitiveness. The competiton at Wharton is not cut-throat (i.e., students refusing to help or even sabatoging each other). I realize you didn't use the term "cut-throat", but I think that's an implication of "hyper-competitive".</p>
<p>Quite to the contrary, per the Wharton Undergrad web site:
[quote]
Nearly every Wharton course incorporates one or more group projects that require you to be a good teammate and enable you to put leadership theories into practice.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>As I'm sure you're aware, collegiality and the ability to collaborate are key elements of success in the business world, and Wharton Undergrad puts great emphasis on this, as do its tens of thousands of highly successful graduates.</p>
<p>Further, again as per the web site:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Last year, 87% of our seniors got the job they wanted before the end of their fall semester.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>With such such strong career placement, Wharton undergrads are not subject to intense pressure to be near the top of the class to succeed (similar to, e.g, Harvard Law School, where even grads in the bottom half of the class get terrific jobs).</p>
<p>If you're interested, take some time to go through that Wharton Undergrad web site (it's brand-new, and was just put up within the last day or so). Among other interesting features, there are many student quotes, blogs, and videos, in which actual undergrads discuss their real-life Wharton experiences. They should be much more enlightenting than whatever anecdotes or rumors have been related by anonymous posters on CC.</p>
<p>For example, see this page:</p>
<p>45 percenter,
I appreciate your comments, links and posts. I know Wharton and its students well. I think that the Wharton program has some of the smartest, most financially plugged in undergraduates in the country and IMO are maybe better prepared for Wall Street work than any other undergraduate school, business or otherwise. However, we disagree with one another on how we see the environment at this school. Their website's comments notwithstanding, it is a different flavor and feel from the other schools that I mentioned.</p>
<p>"Cutt-throat competitive" is such an ambiguous term. What exactly is meant by that? You won't usually come across students going out of their way to ckuf with others.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>So which is it? Are your impressions based on what you "most commonly read about on CC"? Or are they based on having personally spent a lot of time with Wharton undergrads and, more importantly, AT Wharton Undergrad?</p>
<p>Of course no alums want their school to be perceived as cutthroat. JHU is cutthroat. Of course, waiting for a JHU alum to say it isn't.</p>
<p>Wharton chicks are more competitive than chicks (or any student) at any other top school, just my opinion from seeing them at work.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Wharton chicks are more competitive than chicks (or any student) at any other top school, just my opinion from seeing them at work.
[/quote]
Meaning what? They work harder? Longer hours? Suck up to the boss more? Just curious what you mean by "more competitive".</p>
<p>Stanford students are really helpful. I've personally sensed no competitiveness between anyone here. Seriously.</p>
<p>45 percenter - work harder, longer hours, and don't socialize as much as chicks from other schools. Of course, wouldn't be surprised if they ended up with a higher proportion of full time offers than other interns. I don't think they suck up more though.</p>
<p>I don't believe in "top 30". By whos standars, US news? Because i know they are quite flawed, because princton and harvard, definitely DONT have the 2 best undergrad programs.</p>
<p>Are the students at schools that some are labeling competitive-- Wharton, Cornell, JHU, insert another school here, competitive with each other for top grades, or does their competition spread out into social and EC areas as well? How are they when they lose an intramural game? My peers in high school used to share their grades with each other all the time (I abstained) and they would try to see if they could best each other. While I didn't like this environment at all, it's not necessarily bad to want to best your peers, and at the end of the day, it was all for fun.</p>
<p>Where competition gets ugly is when it divides up friendships and turns things that should be enjoyable into a life-or-death situation.</p>
<p>I intended to leave "Top 30" undefined, it just means really good schools IMHO.</p>
<p>Great to see some discussion of this topic. I'm personally fond of a teamwork co=op "Do your Best" atmosphere. But, underneath, I love to be thought of as one of the best.</p>
<p>
I wouldn't call that being "more competitive", especially since they don't "suck up" more. Doing the best job you can is not the same as trying to be better than everyone around you.</p>
<p>Ive heard from the parent of a williams student that it is very competitive and that there are a certain amount of A's they will give in each class, so if you had like a 94 percent but five people had better then you get a B. Antbody from williams or from anywhere know if there is any truth to this?</p>