<p>Space duck: you can try to impress people with your word choice, but it’s clear you fight a losing battle. Denying the advantage African Americans have is hypocritical …</p>
<p>And it’s hard to fight straight FACTS.</p>
<p>@foxfoxfox</p>
<p>The problem with that study is that it’s completely based on correlation and not causation. It only focuses in on certain factors such as race, scores, and economic background I believe. It ignores all the other tangible and intangible factors, which is why I do not believe the study merits a second look at.</p>
<p>@Damond3</p>
<p>My word choice is irrelevant. </p>
<p>The problem is with the facts that fox presented is that it’s full of assumptions and ignores other significant factors to provide a full picture of the college admissions process for specific races.</p>
<p>I’m done with this topic, when people understand that AA is a preventative measure and not a policy to boost in admissions is when we can start having a productive debate.</p>
<p>Good luck to all those rejected/deferred, CONGRATULATIONS to those who got in. You worked hard, regardless of your race, and you deserve your admission. Do not let anyone else tell you otherwise.</p>
<p>I’m done on this topic, you guys can continue on with your silly, moot points.</p>
<p>Space duck: you can try to defend recruited athletes with the same argument. It just doesn’t work.</p>
<p>@Philovitist
There is a clear difference between avoiding ‘pointless’ and digressed debate, and legitimate debate.
Socialist states are famous for high taxation. I think you are confused between socialist states and communist states but they are evidently different. I refer to communist states since they are the extreme side of redistribution of resources.
I can see you clearly are liberal and I’m definitely not in favor of liberals. I’m more of a libertarian. I’m not going to try to persuade you with libertarians’ ideas since you are a liberal and I don’t see any point in that. You used words like ‘regressive’ and ‘progressive’ which are prejudiced. I don’t judge any of them as good or bad. Sure, it would be good to aid poor people. But rich has to pay for the tax as I already mentioned. Too much taxation for rich that is way over the quality of services provided by the government, is unjust. Taking the fruits of one’s labor by taxing them is telling them to work for poor people. Hence taxation is a coerced slavery. Liberals argue that rich benefited from the society because they could enterprise and run business with the consumers in the society so rich have obligation (or debt) to return the portion of the wealth to contribute to the society. But libertarians argue, rich earned the money by doing what society values and appreciates so the debt didn’t exist in the first place. (Ex. Bill Gates provided lot of convenience to the society by offering them decent OS). That’s libertarians’ logic. You can’t assume liberals’ logics are the textbook of Economics.</p>
<p>Please take a deep look at the definition of affirmative action</p>
<p>The turn that this thread has taken is truly upsetting. The fact that it’s become another debate about aa is just depressing. Columbia did or did not admit you for a reason. Blaming it on someone else is just childish. I think it makes more sense spending your time and energy into something more productive. I was deferred as an African American with mid-50% stats but ridiculous extra curriculars. I don’t like to think that my decision was based on urm status because it wasn’t. Based on some of the arguments above, that would mean I would have been accepted. But I wasn’t. (Yet—hehehe). I got over it, and I think you should too. I would never blame anybody of any race of stealing my spot because they didn’t make the decision; however for the past few years I have experienced a lot of negativity due to “my unfair advantage because I’m black.” I’m sure I am not the only one. Not only is this not cool, but very untrue as well. This was a great thread while it lasted, but it’s starting to get very bitter. You are competing against your own race, and you’ve hit a road block. That’s all. Good luck in the future c:</p>
<p>@SpaceDuck</p>
<p>You are not going to change your mind no matter how certain this fact is. Just by looking at you denying the presence of racial quota, I know you would never listen to people around you. I really suggest you to change such attitude, otherwise you would face series of conflicts. You may right or wrong in those conflicts, but you need to learn how to debate with reasonings. The presence of racial quota is confirmed by most people except some extreme skeptics. Just read Wikipedia and feel how widely known the presence of racial quota is.
[Racial</a> quota - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_quota]Racial”>Racial quota - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>@sabrinaromaine</p>
<p>Most people debating the presence of discrimination against Asians in this thread, including me, are not trying to blame others for their rejection. We just accept the system and move on. However, some skeptics who deny the presence of discrimination in admission process are the one who fuel up this heated debate. While we know the necessity of quota, URM privilege etc, it is not easy to just pass by people claiming that every applicant had exactly same chance with no discrimination or privilege.</p>
<p>My 2 cents. I believe every race is against each other in the admissions process. White applicants are against white applicants, black applicants are against black applicants, etc… I feel that this is the reason why people believe Asians have a harder time. Asians are against each other, and a good percentage apply to top colleges and both have great credentials, so if an Asian girl has a 3.9 GPA, 2340 SAT etc…she still has competition against other Asians who have same test scores and GPA but maybe has more volunteer hours so they get the edge and not the girl. It would be great for colleges to accept all high achieving Asians but that’s just not going to happen in order to maintain a healthy and diverse class. This same idea can be applied to why people believe blacks have it easier, well high scoring blacks. We have less competition. There are less black applicants and less high scoring black applicants therefore those of us with a 2250 SAT and 3.7 GPA might get in because less blacks have those same numbers. So when I see a black student get admitted with a 2250 SAT and 3.7 GPA and an Asian girl get denied with a 2340 SAT and 3.9 GPA, I think about how there was more competition for the Asian girl among her own race, rather than the black student. My idea/theory could be wrong, but that’s how I view admissions when it comes to race.</p>
<p>@TinnyT your idea is right. While racial quota is not strict and slightly flexible by few percents, it is general consensus that applicants compete within each race.</p>
<p>@Hate The whole time you’ve been on this thread, even before the decisions came out, you’ve been extremely arrogant and negative. Your screen name is even negative. Before you got your decision you were complaining about how hard it was and how you didn’t think you would get in because you’re a Korean International. So, you didn’t get in, and now you’re complaining for the same reason you said your self you wouldn’t get in. Maybe if you would have spent a little less time off of this thread catching attitudes with people you only dislike and know by a screen name, and more time bettering yourself and your application, you wouldn’t have gotten rejected. You spoke your rejection into existence, now deal with it.</p>
<p>Sincerely,
an African-American female, who doesn’t care why you think I was admitted, because guess what… I’m now a student at Columbia, class of '17. so kick rocks, please.</p>
<p>Simply put, race based admissions hurts everyone in the college environment. Those who got accepted because of their race, cannot compete with the extra rigorous demands of that college. Those who got rejected because of discrimination, lose a chance at an amazing educational opportunity and are punished over something they have no control over. Those URMs that got accepted because they deserved it, because they didn’t use excuses and got those test scores and GPAs are forever alienated in the college community because there will always be that assumption that they got there because of their race, not because they deserved it. </p>
<p>No one has ever presented an argument against merit-based admissions that doesn’t involve “minorities are treated bad and you should feeeeeel bad”.</p>
<p>@116thetBroadway</p>
<p>First, congratulation for your acceptance. Before you criticize me, please refer to specific comments. By my rejection I learned I wasn’t accomplished or competitive enough for Columbia and I don’t complain. Now I’ve moved on to Chicago EA. I honestly didn’t expect acceptance because I’m an Asian international and wasn’t outstanding. And here the result proves it. My screenname doesn’t reflect anything. SMUS is not a person. It’s just a high school. Once I submitted my app, I had nothing to do about submitted application, so I just killed time here. You think lot of proponents of mine and I are blaming Black URM, but we are not. We are not blaming the system neither. We are telling people who deny the presence of URM advantage. Apart from AA issue, I honestly don’t know how you are accepted to Columbia because you presented yourself as a very arrogant and rude student.
’ who doesn’t care why you think I was admitted, because guess what… I’m now a student at Columbia, class of ‘17. so kick rocks, please.’ Stop generalizing and give me facts. Now that you want to defend by stating there is no URM advantage, you are tackling on my nickname which is really pathetic.</p>
<p>Your SAT score of 1890… In a euphemism, other parts of your application were very strong. In offensive words, you are so proud that you got in to Columbia with URM status. I never say such offensive words but I think I need to tell you because you have no notion of respect. That’s why it is evident the URM boost is quite significant. You didn’t compete with me and won a place because I’m an international applicant, so don’t be so arrogant. I understand how you would have felt by this debate. But guess what? URM boost exists and it is quite significant compared to Asians’. However, you won’t be able to enjoy the URM boost after university graduation. You called me extremely arrogant and negative. I don’t know how I was so and cannot think of more extreme case than yours. Well, if worrying about the admission due to intense competition between international applicants is extremely arrogant and negative, I have nothing to say except that you are ignorant.</p>
<p>Thank you SMUS, this is exactly what I mean. Even if the poster above got in on her own merit, which seems rather doubtful because of her scores, people would always just assume that she got in because of her race. AA hurts the minorities who actually TRY.</p>
<p>But my goodness, I see the disparity between the URM scores and everyone else’s. It must feel terrible to those kids who actually tried for their scores and GPAs to be rejected because of their race. Hopefully my children won’t have to face his discrimination.</p>
<p>She’s the stereotype of people whom I would have no respect at all. Now that she’s accepted, I began to thank I’m not in the same school with such ignorant peer student. I would still insist the existence of AA even if I get accepted in Ivy+ schools, but she’s busy trying to attribute her acceptance solely to her merit. Just shows how an advantaged URM can be so arrogant toward other more accomplished students.</p>
<p>@vivianvolka </p>
<p>Yes, I really don’t mind URM applicants admitted with low scores for the sake of diversity. But I get irritated when such ignorant student gets admitted and flaunt it to more accomplished student. I doubt the ability of Columbia adcom not because they rejected me but because they couldn’t catch the arrogance behind her essays. I think, however, even Black race would start to be more competitive in the future.</p>
<p>Diversity of opinions are not achieved by race based admissions. A Hispanic student living next door to a white student in the same affluent neighborhood and attending the same school, would probably have very similar views. An Asian student from a different country or a poorer neighborhood would provide a better diversity of opinion. But that would require class discrimination. I just believe people should be reviewed based on what they achieved. Their scores, their grades, their essays and their ECs. Not based on who their parents are.</p>