To srk2017
This is a hard decision for i have several students in my lab as Master students nowafter finishing BS, trying to improve- hit GPA, MCATs, etc get papers… Some says the journey is more important but now these students says getting " acceptance letter" is their top dream…
All stated they were at top of their highschool game for GPA, SAT Etc…but the weeding out process is real…
@empire007 & @bearchichi - Thanks for your input. This is the reason I posted our dilemma here. DS is a RPI Medalist. AMC students seems to be getting good specialties matching, but at mid-tier hospitals. With more and more physicians becoming employees than employers (i.e. few private practices), how much does prestige of residency program helps with finding a job at a good hospital is something to ponder.
Got accepted into RPI / Albany!
@thatcho hell yeah u waitin on any other programs?
@srk2017 I do believe like with any other profession the better the school you go to the bettter the job you will end up with. An example being if you graduate with an engineering degree with a high GPA from MIT you will definitely be sought after more for your services than if you went to a lower tier school. So certainly coming out of a top tier med school will give you a better opportunity than a mid tier assuming all other factors (step scores, research etc) are equal. I guess the biggest thing would be is how much confidence your DS has in his own abilities and if he is willing to roll the dice in 4 years after all the weeding out in undergrad like @bearchichi mentioned. A lot of people feel a top student will always be a top student (which I also believe to be the case), however as so many have seen with the BSMD process, there are so many external factors that go into getting an acceptance, with luck definitely being one of them, that there is no gaurantees when applying again in 4 years. Good luck.
@empire007 - I made same arguments as you to my son and told him to decide. He already had setbacks with BSMD process i.e. he applied to top tier mostly and didn’t get many interviews. We will still have more decisions to wait for and long discussion. Since there are lot of informed people here, I will bring up our thought process here and I show the responses to him. Thanks for your input.
I agree if u get into a great UG program then why not?
Most of my friends who r in John Hopkins, Yale and wash U, U Penn got into great medical programs
I guess in couple of weeks when all of the results are in, the questions related to BS/MD program versus a “great” UG school will become more intense. It is one thing to shoot for a Tier 1 BS/MD program or a great UG, but when it comes to decision time, a lot of factors like cost, reputation of the program, the uncertainty and work involved in preparing for 4 years and then eventually applying to medical schools will all also become very important.
As said few times above, these will not be easy decisions, and I personally will rely on this community for their insights.
Got UCONN regular admission but no news for Sims!
@amar12 Thanks for clarification
Reject email from VCU. End of BS/MD journey.
Good luck with the rest of your undergrads!!!@colleg2017
@dualmd2017 Thank you. Been a very disappointing journey. Probably underestimated how competitive these programs are.
@colleg2017 - Sorry to hear that. BSMD is becoming more competitive as medical schools are becoming competitive. Good with UG and future medical school process.
Any tips for the NJMS interview? What kind of format is it: MMI, individual, etc.?
Hi folks, it’s been really interesting seeing different journeys on this site and I’d love to get information and points of view on a number of items. My son only applied to a couple BSMD programs and has not received any offers. We always thought it was 50/50 at best based on his overall CV (really really good, but not “top 1%” of all HS students grade, he is also a white male coming from an upper middle class background - pls don’t take that statement wrong, I just want to paint the demo picture up front since diversity IS a factor in admissions decisions). So here go the questions, and thanks in advance: #1, do the BSMD programs, or Med school programs for that matter, publish demographic statistics (e.g., race, gender, income, etc.), or is there an organization that consolidates these figures and reports out on them; #2, assuming he has the same type of CV and demographic background in college that he had in preparation for these BSMD programs, won’t his chances even be worse trying to get into med school; #3, does anyone have experience with their kids in having them approach their college education at least with a “Plan B” in terms of majors (in case he doesn’t get into med school, he still has a very marketable degree other than, say, chemistry where he could maybe teach or be a researcher (which he wants no parts of) — so what types of options should he consider in college to prepare him for med school but also he can go out an hit the ground running in a good job if it doesn’t work out [other bottom line is, at this point, he wants to be a Dr. and not other type of medical provider like PA or nurse etc.] — I guess part of this question, honestly, is, what do so many kids do who have fought hard to get to med school but don’t get accepted, what do they do then?; #4, in the choice between going to a $65k a year “name school” where he will get $0 aid at all due to our financial situation, and we would expect him to take out some loans around $40k-$60k in total over the 4 years, vs. a top tier public university honors college that has offered him a ton of merit aid and where he will have “money left over” since we’ve saved more than the cost, what are folks thoughts? I know there is a lot packed into this … appreciate any thoughts. And good luck to all of you who have the great opportunity to decide whether to accept an offer to a BSMD program!
@wptugs - Demographics is part of the admissions decisions making so nothing wrong with bring it up. Asians boys followed Asian girls are the most competitive compared to white male/female now days for medical schools (due to high stats and tech boom) and that’s why majority of the applicants for BS/MD are Asian. At AMC interview, 9 out of 10 candidates are Asian and @ BU 18 out of 20 were Asian.
I try to answer your questions.
- Most schools publish their demographics data but I doubt that they publish by major or program. 2.Most people think medical school admissions will keep getting tougher since more and more are resorting to gap years (grad school or research) to improve adds.
- I don't have experience here. However as basic sciences major it's tough to find good paying jobs. You need to go to grad school and even Ph.D. Engineering or CS will have better choices, but you run into GPA issues with engineering major.
- I will take public route if they have good premed support and research opportunities
@wptugs All valid points and questions.
- Acceptance Demographic data is usually published and handed out to those who receive an interview. My child had multiple interviews last cycle and when attending all of those interviews received a form that showed demographic data. However schools that did not grant interviews we found no such data available by the university on the internet. Personally I feel it should be the most qualified students regardless of diversity quota who get selected. But frankly it is mostly Asians (Indians and Chinese) who apply to these programs because of their high standing coming out of high school. At all the interviews we had last cycle the breakdown was 70%-30% Asian (Indian and Chinese) to White. With 60%-40% female to male.
- Statistically the chances of getting into a US Med School going the traditional route are about the same as getting into BSMD coming out of high school. Both are around 2% or so. But the biggest difference is you are competing against 10x as many applicants when applying after undergrad than applying for BSMD.
- We struggled with that same question last cycle and my kid decided a fall back in case of not getting into BSMD was to major as a Biomedical Engineering major. This way even if my child went thru 4 years and was unable to get admission to a US Med School, at least it was possible to get a somewhat decent paying job with that degree. As said by @srk2017 if you major in the classical sciences of Biology or Chemistry you would need to go IMHO all the way to PhD in order to make any significant money.
- Regardless of public university or Ivy League when applying to med school you have to be the absolute best of the best when it comes to grades, research, volunteer and MCAT. It appears US Med Schools are getting even more competitive as every year more and more people apply. Which is why now you see a lot of people going overseas to attend Med School in Eastern Europe or the Caribbean. At least for us that option was not on the table because we know several people who spent a lot of money doing that and were unable to get residency when the came back to the states.
@wptugs Here is my take but not based any stats/data.
- Though regular MD admission gives greater consideration on demo, for BS/MD program due to very limited number of seats, demo is not really impacting in any significant way. But due to Asian cultural belief and influence in family, the number of Asian students applying to BS/MD students will skew any stat data even if they publish. For regular MD, there are reports and links (if you see the many threads in pre-med topics) on various items. Based on that it goes like this. If you are URM very high probability to get admission. If you non-Asian (like white) have a good equal chance. If you are Asian (ORM) the chances are very low. With the assumption all 3 categories have a similar profile in GPA, MCAT, EC etc
- Not necessarily (due to the point 1 response). Rather I will say will have a slightly better chance than Asian. Would say MD can play advantage to your situation depending on which state and also have another 4 years to kick a notch above the crowd if s/he is so determined to get in to MD.
- Though it is so important to have a Plan B, it is a tricky part of the equation and it may differ how easy or how hard to have this discussion within each family and even within each child in the same family. Because of the generation gap, students current age and the immediate reply 'I know'. If a student listens, convey the importance of Plan B and how it can help in the long run. If they are so determined about a major, at least encourage them to do some minor in some areas which can give a leg in career. Or at least try our some courses during the UG. It is important to have the open mind and try out within a reasonable limits during UG. Best time since any how have to fulfill some various general req requirements, try whether it is accounting, finance, CS, Engg, Humanities, PolSci, Art, Music, Language History. To play devil's advocate, except for few professions and careers, majority of the situation the college and major are just a passport in life. Finally career success depends on what the individual does during his lifetime and a lot depends on the untaught soft skills.
- To public school if s/he is determined about medicine path. Even otherwise, it makes sense to be contain the cost unless the school / program is THE top and a compelling reason to join. The response to this question will differ. Personally I am so curious to study / research on this topic. I asked a friend of mine whose 2 Ds, 1 went to Stanford and 1 went to Columbia. Both did the routine CS. So I asked him why there, why not UCB with regents scholarships and give the $250k to each kid later in their life. His response, I want them to get inspiration (to aim and reach higher in life)to study with students of Zuckerbergs, Gates, future CEOs. From his vantage point it is worth to spend $250k to experience the untaught skill of inspiration, if a family can afford. Personally I may differ. For most of the basic science, engg, art, any reasonable school is ok for UG. May be for Masters and Ph.Ds the research mentor and the school can help to some extent. Or special programs like MBA or specific arts/music, it makes sense to do it in a top schools than any school.
@srk2017 @Empire007 @GoldenRock all made very good points on the questions from @wptugs . IMHO, the Affirmative Action in admissions of traditional UG and Medical Schools has negative impacts on Asian students as ORM group. But the BS/MD admissions look like to be more leveled field for everybody with certain criteria, such as GPA, ranking, standardized tests, research, medicine related volunteering and shadowing, etc, to compete fairly. During this BS/MD application cycle, my DD had multiple interviews and rejections. She has pretty competitive stats like many other applicants, but she became very humbled through her own experiences because she realized that there are many hard working and smart kids out there, and she just needs to do her own best. I believe this would be a very good life lesson for her to keep chartering her own path in the future.