@Mom22DDs thank you!
@BS_MD2017 it was a very difficult choice but ultimately it came down to location. my DS felt that chicago might be too overwhelming and he said he prefers providence.
Hi Guys, looking for help and guidance here for my DD. As you can see she has done really well and want to make sure we make the right decision. On pure merit of the school and taking into account the uncertainty around the traditional path, what you recommend. Any insight deeply appreciated.
DD has:
UGs - Stanford, Yale, Princeton, Cornell.
Programs - NW HPME, Brown PLME, Rice/Baylor (interview Pending), BU, Penn, TCNJ/NJMS, Rutgers/NJMS, Rochester (Alternate), AMC/RPI.
@BS_MD2017 - could you explain pros of TCNJ? I read some comment that TCNJ is low on research opportunities, thus asking.
I am not clear about the applying out. Again, read on some thread here that TCNJ does not allow applying out but NJIT does. NJIT has a welcome event next week that we’re going to. I’ll be sure to ask about applying out and will post back.
@Mom22DDs TCNJ campus location is much better. Its a fairly small sized yet nice campus. Since you are going to be in NJ, I am assuming you will visit TCNJ also - its only 30 minutes from Newark. Believe me location is important… TCNJ has the most number of the BS/MD kids and so there is that also - not sure how many NJIT has but not that many… Anyways, best to see for yourself and decide since you are going to be here. GL.
Congrats @BS_MD2017 - your DD has the choice of the top programs!! I dont know enough about the top BSMD programs to comment much. Brown PLME seems to be the most flexible option, and Brown has a favorable grading system (in case she wants to apply out after UG).
I can say Stanford is a great UG only option as the opportunities for research within campus are just amazing, and grading is not deflated. At Stanford, chances are, your kid will not go MD but will instead decide do a medical related startup. That’s what we’re hearing from folks whose kids went to Stanford considering medicine, and some have been wildly successful.
I’ll watch this thread for recommendations you get, and wish your DD the best wherever she decides to go.
@path2md the majority of residency programs are currently held by MD affiliated institutions. Even though there may be some DO graduates training in these programs, they are not merged. As things stand right now, NRMP only looks after MD residencies. A DO residency program is one that is run and affiliated with a DO medical school or training institution. hope that helps clarify a few things.
Thank you @BS_MD2017 - my daughter prefers to know her cohorts, especially since these are very small cohorts, so we’ll swing by TCNJ this weekend and also visit there during their BSMD event.
@DoctorTO, thanks for clarifying that ! I wasn’t aware of this. I thought both MD and DO students go through same NRMP for Residency programs.
@Mom22DDs Great questions. Comparing match lists between institutions is more than just a function of looking for brand name schools as some brand name programs may have mediocre reputations among their specialty. Therefore it is highly specialty specific. For example, MDAnderson has top oncology training programs but is affiliated with UTHouston.
Re: your other Qs, in the US, when an MD applicant applies for a residency position through the NRMP, there are generally three types of positions: categorical, transitional or prelim.
Categorical - most straightforward. If you match to categorical then you match to the program and specialty and will train there for a number of years to become xyz physician. from PGY1-PGYx
Transitional - typically 1 yr. Some residencies do not admit trainees into year 1 (PGY-1) ie. non-categorical derm programs. For these programs, applicants must apply to match first to either a transitional or a prelim year. Transitional as the name implies is just that. You spend a year there, but the rotations are typically not fixed or geared towards a specialty because they know the trainees are really just killing time, giving trainees more flexibility. Transitional positions are more competitive because they tend to be more relaxed and are sought out by applicants applying to competitive programs like Derm, Rad Onc that do not offer a direct categorical match directly into PGY-1.
Preliminary - typically 1-2 yr. A “preliminary” position, in contrast, is a position offering only one to two years of training generally prior to entry into advanced specialty programs. You will see that many of the preliminary positions are in specific disciplines such as internal medicine and surgery training programs. This is in addition to the categorical positions. Prelim programs are more rigid and afford less flexibility. These are typically less competitive than transitional programs.
As for the DO/MD merger, it is expected to bring the current DO programs (AOA) under the umbrella of the ACGME (accrediting agency for MD residencies). The merger will allow MD students to apply for DO residencies but the reality is most will not because they see DO programs as being inferior. There are still stigmas associated with DO programs and having a DO degree. It will not unify residency programs. Residency programs associated with MD degree institutions will continue to preferentially select and match MD grads over DO grads even under a new merger. COMLEX and USMLE exams will also continue to remain distinct entities for DO and MD grads respectively.
Hope this helps!
Thank you @DoctorTO ! Would you have some wisdom to share on how to compare and choose between medical colleges?
a few clarifcations:
-DO residency programs not DO degree granting programs
-When few or no-categorical spots exists in a given specialty, applicants apply to BOTH non-cat and prelim/transitional programs at the same time. So it is possible that applicants can match to only the prelim/cat spot (PGY1) and not the non-categorical position (PGY2+)
The nice thing about medical schools in the US and Canada is that they are all accredited by the same agency (LCME). The standards are very high and so regardless of where one goes to medical school, they will become an excellent physician. However, as you asked, there are many considerations in choosing a school.
Generally, you should consider each school’s:
- Grading system. Is it pass/fail in the basic sciences years? What about during clinical years?
- Hospital affiliations. Typically, the more hospital affiliations a school has, the better and also the breadth of specialties among the hospitals.
- Location. Is it where you ultimately want to end up as an attending physician?
- Research Output. Typically, the more research intensive = more big wigs in the fields. LOR from big wigs that know you can be weighed heavily by residency programs. Also, all the top residency programs will be geared towards being more research heavy.
- Cost. How much more for 1-4? It may end up being a tradeoff especially if money is an issue.
Thank you very much @DoctorTO!
All -what ranking sites exist to compare medical schools? I understand the rankings are subjective, and should be one factor of the whole equation. We are using USNews and StartClass (and the rankings vary wildly between the two, especially for low/mid tier schools). Are there other sites folks here refer to and wouldn’t mind sharing?
@bond99 There is a dedicated thread on UMKC and a super dedicated Doc graduated from UMKC helps folks which I am sure you are aware. Based what I have read in the past 2 years about UMKC and in this thread about RPM/AMC, I would suggest to go with RPI/AMC. 1 year difference in lifetime (especially when you have a guaranteed spot) is not worth a penny. Student also can enjoy the college years and you can also save some money.
@bsmd38 GWU/GWU may edge over Union/AMC.
@BS_MD2017 First congratulations to your DD and to the proud parents.
If your DD is very clear that medicine is her passion, then go with BS/MD programs than Ivies.
For BS/MD will narrow the list to NW HPME or Rice/Baylor (personal preferences) but 2 contrast locations!
Actually it does not matter!. With what she has demonstrated, she will be fine and successful with any choice.
@Mom22DDs TCNJ/NJMS.
Thought UH results are out but you clarified later in your second post. Not sure why it is taking this long this year.
Some times we parents tend to over analyze! Used to be in the same boat, but slowly drifting away. It is a long path and as long as done some due diligence and guided them, they will succeed. Also looking at rankings and various lists can be used as guard rails and not for absolute data points. Whether UG or MD, it will facilitate to compare with in a broad yard stick, like top or middle or low tiers or top 10-50 vs 50-80 etc. If choices are within the broad range (whether they are within the top or middle) then give or take and go with where student feels comfortable.
@BS_MD2017 I agree with @GoldenRock in choosing between NW, Brown or Baylor. If you are TX resident Baylor should be seriously considered (for financial reasons) if not flip a coin between NW and Brown, you can’t go wrong either way! Given your choices I feel the BSMD route is the no brainer.
Baylor seems a better pick because of the amazing college experience, texas medical center location and very attractive low out-of-state medical school fees, assuming UG costs are same for all three.